Do Fetuses Have Souls?

I don't think any thoughtful person believes abortions should be banned. But there have beenfifty five million of them since the Roe V Wade decision.

As former President Clinton said:
"Abortion should not only be safe and legal, it should be rare," ... and there's the problem.

Pro Choice people, who support abortions at any stage of pregnancy, on the jury's finding Gosnell guilty said that [I paraphrase] hopefully this means that fewer women will end up in clinics like Gosnell's.
... completely ignoring in their sentiments the murder of the fetuses born alive.

What contributed to Gosnell's clinic being allowed to do what was done there for what, 30-years(?) was that these clinics get no scrutiny whatsoever because the pro-choice "community" so has the ear of applicable government agencies in this country.

 

Your participation here should logically have started with the response you gave in post #36 and you could have built on that.

 

I've given you the answers. What is there left to build? What's missing is your point of view. Do you have one?

 

No.

 

I think you are asking the wrong question. An individual cell is "alive" but does that cell constitute a person or a human being? Any rational person would say no.

What none of us really knows with any certainty is when these cells become a living being whatever that means. The anti-abortion crowd prefers to err on the side of caution by claiming all life is sacred a woman's rights be damned. The pro-choice crowd prefers to err on the side of the individual rights of the woman and her body and terminate a potential life before it can survive outside of the mother if she chooses.
If you think about it, both sides are speaking for someone else. Anti-abortionists take it upon themselves to speak for life that is not allowed to happen. The pro-choice crowd take it upon themselves to speak for all women. Of course women weigh in on both sides both for and against the practice. With all of these people speaking for others is it any wonder we can't even agree on terminology? If everyone would simply stop trying to play the savior role for both the unborn life and women and let the women themselves decide, the anti-abortion crowd would not have to have abortions and the pro-choice crowd could do as they please. If it turns out that abortion is a sin against God, the those people that had abortions will be rewarded in the afterlife and so will those who chose not to have an abortion. Again, the trick is to stop trying to play savior and mind your own business. God will sort it out. If you don't trust God, what's the point of trying to do his work?

 

No, actually what I asked was what I meant. It is life. Life has a specific meaning. If there are people out there who think it is not life then I am curious about that as I was of those who think the soul is awarded after birth (so to speak).

At what point someone considers a fetus a 'person' or at what point they consider a fetus as 'important life' or a 'person with rights' is a different matter entirely.

 

They would also be completely wrong.

Now whether they consider it a 'person' or as 'important life' is another matter altogether.

 

Good points, although I'm not sure that pro-choicers take it on themselves to speak for all women as much as they take it on themselves to try to give all women the freedom to follow their own conscience. You'd better be careful. You are in grave danger of raising the general tone here. You are providing far more reason and rationality than is the rule in this place. David might report you.

 

A decent majority of people believe abortion should be legal (a little over 60%). However, only a small percentage (less than 30%) believe it should be legal in the 2nd trimester and an even smaller minority (less than 15%) believe it should be legal in the 3rd trimester.

So, as usual it is more complex than the extremes (or extremists) would indicate. And much more complex than that we should 'Do whatever, just let God sort it out' on the issue.

 

I think it depends on where you're coming from when it comes to god. If you believe that there is perfect, all-powerful, all-knowing god who plays an active role in the affairs of humans then it seems like butting out and letting him handle this complex issue is the only course that really makes sense. Certainly better than trying to impose a solution using our poor imperfect human knowledge and reason.

 

I don't have time to post in this thread. I'm busy swinging dead babies from their umbilical chords while watching western movies naked in David's mom's bedroom.

I LOVE SATAN!

(This is what David and OKC see irrespective of the actual content of your posts, so why bother?)

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Yes, SATAN!! SATAN!!! SATAN!!!

 

so, according to no. 4, a soul is a physical thing capable of possessing other physical things. Clausal argument in second assertion that "If you believe that, then it does not possess a soul," because if a soul did not possess a soul it would not be a soul - because it does not have a soul and thus does not exist.

P.S. SATAN!

 

I guess that reasoning could pretty much apply to anything then. No need for laws. No need for social programs. No need to worry about slavery being right or wrong or women's suffrage or child neglect or animal cruelty. God will sort it all out in the end and show who was right and wrong.

 

Not necessarily in the end. in His good time, my friend. In His good time. What you seem to be saying indicates a disturbing lack of faith in the beneficence of the Almighty and displays the arrogance and pride of those who claim to trust in Him and His power yet seek to usurp his role as the great sorter outer and settler of hash.

 

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I fail to see how the author of this meme pays for someone else's reproductive system and even if they did in some roundabout way then think that they had the right to own another human's choice to reproduce. I clearly help pay for roads and bridges but I don't get to decide who gets to then use them.

That is the problem with Right-wing memes, they make absolutely no sense from any type of rational perspective. Care to challenge my Left-wing meme above eh Coiny? Hum? Go for it!

 

Do fetuses have souls? I can't say one way or the other, for anyone or anything, with any degree of certainty.

I rely on real knowledge to help me form an opinion, unlike religion.

The existence or absence of a soul in a fetus is impossible for me to answer because the soul is unknown scientifically. One guy did attempt to measure the weight of a soul, but his conclusions are debatable.

Religion, however, has belief, as defined by the originator's of their religion (men, usually) and the subsequent people in power within that organization (men, usually), as well as themselves.

This belief doesn't rely on scientific scrutiny to make or prove any claim, no matter how ridiculous it is, it just makes the claim as if science didn't exist.