The saudi's own large stock blocks in most of our major media and have a say on who runs what who then has a say on what is said. Which is why most of the press may be anti-Iran. A saudi worry and little is said about the saudi's who after all have the sword of religious war on their flag. As for stingers, they were never used against a western target. They have a short field life and need upkeep. The CIA helped bring down the soviet helicopters thru proxy which in turn helped bring down the soviet union but the first bush and clinton did not take full advantage of the void that was left. Voids will be filled in time. Better to have an end game plan then leave it up to chance.
But, not all the Stingers were accounted for afterwards, and even though the field life was low, and the upkeep expensive and technical, there was indeed concern on the part of the US Armed Forces when in October/November the USA started sending in A/C over Iraq. All it takes is one missile that sat around in the right conditions for awhile, and a lot of luck, and the victims could have a very bad day. But you don't even need a Stinger to bring down an aircraft, just ask the Israelis a few years ago, nearly lost a Boeing 757 airliner in Kenya to some crude knockoff shoulder launched weapon that was apparently a copy of an old Soviet SA missile. Afghanistan, 41 really didn't have to do a whole lot, the place had completely unravelled by then, and there wasn't a lot to do but let them kill themselves until the stronger party became a majority. It was when Billary came to office that the $#!+ started hitting the fan again, and Al Qaeda and the Talibs started consolidating their power base and defeating the so-called "Northern Alliance" under Masood. In 1998 Clinton did authorise a really flaccid and lame cruise missile attack on a suspected Al Qaeda training centre, but aside from lightly damaged Bedouin style tents, there were no other damages. So little response, to remember the 1998 Kenya and Tanzanian US embassy bombings, where hundreds(though not many Americans) died?
Yes not all of the stingers were ever accounted for and those are scrap at best by now. The example you use with the Keyna airport which you stated was not a stinger was a security issue more then anything for a host of weapons could have taken out the isreali plane at take off when a shooter has access at such close range. I repeat, the CIA did their job by providing stingers to take out the soviet helicoters which in turn set off a chain of events that led to the fall of the Soviet Empire. No stingers have ever been used against a western target. As far as the press story in Iraq it was just another false story by the press that paints the US bad by alluding that everything is really our fault. The void I was speaking of went back to Georgia not clannish backward Afghanistan. The United States had a window of opportunty during the Soviet Union/Russia freefall to have moved at a much larger level weapons and training/advisor assests to eastern europe. Russia was a mess and not in much shape to do anything then. Clinton preached that russia was no longer a threat and actually decreased the US military. Now the Russian Bear is standing and we need her to be a part time ally rather then a full time foe.
Russia under Yeltsin, a democrat, though a semi drunken one, was NOT a threat. At that point, they were deep in the doodoo in Chechenya, Dagestan, Tatarstan etc. If that wasn't enough the whole rotten social structure caved in, life expectancy went down dramatically whilst crime rose etc. The government was trying to sort out who owned what, but also so were the Russian mafia, that many of later either would prop Putin or be on the side of Khodorovsky and Anatoly Sobchak and later afoul of Putin and his now puppet boy Medvedev. But the mistake was not forecasting that this would happen, that strong puppet masters would step into place after the long awaited resignation of Yeltsin on Dec. 31 1999. Russia during the period of 1989-2001 had a fairly reasonable index of freedom and civil liberties, that all changed after former KGB spy, Vlad the Impaler Putin, took power, and consolidated his power by pulling the reins of government back in, eliminating regional governors being elected, instead being selected by the State Duma in Moscow etc. Elections in Russia since 2001-2002 have gone back to the good old USSR rubber stamp days, where you vote - for the appointed candidate only.
I was over there before Yeltsin had the white building stormed, which was anti-democratic and strong armed tactic. But the bottom line was that that nation could not govern itself, had no middle class to lead the way as was in Germany and Japan after ww 2 and never had anything but absolute rulers as a guide. It was clear that democracy was a farce and not going to get any better left as was but Clinton administration preached that the cold war was over and wanted the peace dividend while ignoring what was being reported to it.
When the White House was bombarded, remember that Vice President Aleksandr Rutskoi and his cohorts had some degree of arms, but were counting on support from the military to assist them in their endeavour to wrest Ostankino(TV Transmission Station) and be able to broadcast their message and take control of the government by force. Yeltsin responded by having the military come in, fire on the White House, and wrest control of the situation back. What he had done may not have been exactly democratic to some eyes, but seizing control of the government by military means is even less so. Rutskoi did not like the fact that his strong arm tactics were marginalised in the new Duma. He founded a new political party, but do to accusations of fraud, etc. he was slowly taken out of the Russian political scene.
This conflict is not going away, in fact it is still being fanned by the participants and the non-participant side observers in Europe and America. Russia is upping the threats against it's "Near Abroad" neighbours in Ukraine and Moldova. The flaccid EU meets tomorrow, and will issue some ridiculously worded missive about resolution, peace etc. Nothing substantive though. Seems as though the French and Germans get too much gas from the Neo-Commies and are going the way of Munich. The British of course are taking a much firmer stance along with Poland and E. Europe.
Russia's attitude towards its neighbours is just unbelievable.What gives the Russians the right to station its troops in both Georgia & Moldova? In my view,they've got no right.I wouldn't be too surprised if the Ukrainians tell the Russians to give up their base in the Crimea. Both Dmitri Medvedev & Vladimir Putin are out to cause trouble.Their pirate regimes in Abkhazia,South Ossetia,& Transdniester are illegal in the same way that Turkey's pirate regime in northern Cyprus is.The Russians claim that Kosovo is not legallyindependent,when Kosovo's independence does have legitimacy under international convention. Aidan.
Russia's attitude towards its neighbours is nothing new. Frankly the EU, and NATO got caught with their pants down, again! Ever since the breakup of the USSR, Russia has missed its' "Near Abroad" as they refer to the former USSR Republics that became independent. Russia has actively participated in the political scene in Ukraine, no one will say for certain, but they were likely involved in the dioxin poisoning of Viktor Yuschenko in 2004. Pootie Poot actively supported his candidate for President of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, who won in a widely disputed and soon discredited election. They have actively sought to prosecute Yuliya Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine. They have warned Moldova on the Transdinistria region. They are advising Ukraine that they will want to extend their lease on Sevastopol Naval Base, and they are also handing out Russian passports to all takers there, a precedent they previously used in Abkhazia and in S. Ossetia. They actively oppose NATO membership for Georgia and Ukraine, and to a lesser extent are opposed to EU membership for either. The problem is not Russia, it is the Europeans and Americans that thought something changed. Nothing changed, same cart, new driver, but same old policies of aggression.
Russia will have to decide if those two areas that broke away, be it for real or a fraud, from Georgia are better off to be mini nation-states and in time have a vote in the UN under Russia shadow or to become part of Mother Russia again. What anyone else thinks does not matter
Isa, Georgia has the same chance of reuniting with Russia as the Lake of Fire in Hell freezing over & the Pope of Rome becoming a Protestant - absolutely none! The sooner that both Georgia & Ukraine join both N.A.T.O. & the European Union,the better. Aidan.
Well I don't believe in Hell and I liked what I saw with Pope John Paul but I do think that neither NATO/European Union or the US will stop Russia from slowly taking over those regions. The only think that I think NATO/European Union and US wants is for Russia to do it slowly and under the radar and not with the bluntness of a drunken bully.
But... remember the analogy from the Cold War, the Domino Theory, when one falls, they all will fall like dominoes. It did indeed happen in SE Asia, and those countries with the exception of Cambodia are still communist. Cambodia only skirts along because they restored the monarchy, and like Thailand, the monarch above the fray keeps everything semi-orderly. This morning the government of Ukraine fell apart again, with Viktor Yuschenko attempting to fire Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko again. These two should be allies, but they are not. Their infighting only helps Yanukovych and the pro-Russian bloc in the government. Russia loves this.
The Ukraine should worry for as long as Putin is alive I am sure he is biding time to restore them and any other area from the former Czarist russian empire. I just don't think Western Europe cares as long as they get there natural gas, oil and sexy young sex slaves from russia.
I'll find out in four more weeks, going back to Ukraine for a couple of weeks. Should be interesting. Might be going over there a few more times in the next several months too.
Breakng news GEORGIA CRISIS: RUSSIA AGREES TO PULL OUT OF S.OSSETIA BUFFER ZONE Appearing alongside French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Russia's Dmitri Medvedev agreed to pull Russian troops out of South Ossetia's buffer zone if an international force is deployed Looks like the status quo might well have been broken at last
Uh... we heard that before. Remember their troops pulled out, but they left "Peacekeepers" there. All they did was pull white armbands on, and presto, "Peacekeepers" not occupiers. The USA started the whole thing, the USA government orchestrated the whole Georgian drive into S. Ossetia, then the Russians having to come in and liberate the Ossetians and Abkhazians from those nasty imperialists, whoops, I mean American stooges.
But... it is not other people's countries, they are Russian, you know. Look what the Russian government is doing in Crimea, handing out passports like confetti to anyone that will apply for them so they can Russify the area. They have a lease on the naval base at Sevastopol that expires in 2017. Since everybody or practically everybody there is Russian anyway, and has Russian passports, they can just say "Ha - the citizens are ours, so must be the base!" Look how long it took Russia to pull back from it's military bases in Georgia in the 1990's, literally about 7 years. They had two army bases in Georgia for quite some time after Georgia wanted them out, they hemmed and hahhed, but only got out when the military was strapped and needed the manpower and equipment they had tied up there. What I have to wonder, are the Georgians really pro-Western as the media would suggest? Or is it just their leadership. I know in Ukraine it is about 50% in favour of the West, and 50% in favour of Russia. Ukraine's Central Rada, or Parliament was dissolved just last week over pro-Nato activities on the part of the President, while the Prime Minister, Yulia Tymoshenko is seen as favouring playing both sides.
