Yes my mistake at they did join NAto a bit later, Again though never said shots were fired and for your infomation the Border was not fully reopend till 86 and I believe it was only in 2000 that Spain decided to look upon the Goverment og Gib as a 'Competent Authority' till then they refused to accept the courts or police as existing so yeh Allies can disagree LOL can I ask what your argument is with Turkey as you seem to rather strongly opposed to them? me i would rather have them firmly tied to the west than falling further into the Iranian camp. De Orc
I would rather have Turkey as a secularized state, tied to Europe also. But Turkey really is a land devided, on one hand there are the democratic secularists that are currently in power, on the other hand are the Islamic fundamentalists which are gaining in popularity, with whom the secularists are having to balance out and sometimes even assuage with. These fundamentalists are in league with their Egyptian and Saudi brethren in wanting to go live back in the 11th century and wage Jihad on anything which is not in kind with themselves. Turkey's treatment of it's Kurdish and Armenian minorities during the 20th and now 21st century is beyond reprehensible. No such state with issues as they currently have warrants membership in the EU. They will have to continue to work on these issues before such is possible. It is not for Britain and the USA to decide this, but Europe taken as a whole. As noted above, Turkey imports under it's nose thousands of Ukrainian and Russian women for sexual slavery and tolerates it. These women are lured by what are supposed to be restaurant jobs, secretarial positions, or just plain forcibly abducted. Turkey has a terrible record of overlooking this and allowing this trade to continue.
As far as even the secular Turks are concerned, they all seemed to support the rape and murder that went on ,and was documented by the Euopean Human Rights Commission, when they invaded Cyprus which was close to 90% Greek. As for Crypus once being Turkish, The Turks also ruled Greece until the Greeks declared their independence in 1821 and succeed until 1829. The accounts of Turkish atrocities have filled books. As far as Turkey engaging in sex slavery upon the Christians of Eastern Europe, why is the world quite on this matter. It is backed by their government as Krasnaya Vityaz has pointed out so it is not a matter of a few bad apples. I wonder if a Christian nation did that to muslims what would be said?
In which case Andy I would sugest that you have a little read about Bulgaria then check out what the Albanians are up to (Bulgaria wants to join the EEC as well) also ask yourself how these girls end up in Turkey and by the way the UK where a big sex trade ring was broken recently, then have a look at the Russian Mafia, please dont blame it all on the Turks also we can throw the Kosovans into the mix. Also I have never said it was for the UK or US to decide LOL what I did say was that the UK would support the Turkish entry to the community. De Orc
Who joins the European Union is up to the Europeans as far as I am concerned. Of course we have a national interest in what happens in the world community and should voice in quietly behind closed doors but the bottom line is it is called the European Union for a reason. As for the Russian Mafia, there is no one group that makes up the Russian Mafia but I do know that when I was over there it was the Chechens, who are muslims, that were the most powerful and dangerous. I have provided a link that gives a quick overview of this. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/03/98/russian_mafia/70485.stm As for the Kosovans and Albanians mafia I do not know if you are aware of this but they are also muslims criminal enterprises as well. The Kosovo Liberation Army is an islamic group that is also a leader of raiding villages and abducting women into forced prositiution as well as being big heroin traders. The Albanians who as you know are getting larger and stronger and have taken over Soho. A webpage that documents some of this can be looked at http://www.serbianna.com/columns/mb/028.shtml But if I remember correctly Rudy Giuliani future mayor of NYC as then Federal prosecutor in NYC prosecuting the Kosovo Mafia around 1985 and the Wall Street Journal carried the articles. There is a direct link between the muslim mafia,(Russian/Chechan,Albanian and KLA), and the Turkish government as well as Saudia Arabia.
Let us not forget where the Chechen "freedom fighters", the KLA etc get the majority of their funding: Saudi Arabia, Al Qaeda and asst supporters in Turkey and Egypt.
We know this stuff goes one, which makes the Russian shift towards Iran very confusing. Do the Russians actually believe what Iran is apparently telling them? How long will it be before Iran funds another Islamic attack on Mother Russia? I think the Russians are at greater risk than Americans. If Russia is lining up with Iran for economic reasons, they indeed must be desperate. I think it will not serve Russia well to allign themselves with Iran. It seems as though they are trying to revive the "Cold War" with the USA. I am really perplexed with the current goings on. It is not comforting.
Russia is trying to keep it's position in the world. The fact that it has oil and a legacy military left over from the USSR days helps. But it's military infrastructure is aging seriously and money really has not been liberally funding that sector since the mid 1980's. Couple that with the ominous presence of too much military and you are faced with the same scenario that Mikhail Gorbachev faced in August 1991. Russia wants to remain a world power, but without a modern military and only economic success to bank on so far, it must align itself with powers that were formerly acknowledged enemies, ie China, Iran etc. China is a rising star economically, and has been militarily powerful for some time now. China is starting to take precedence in international affairs on a scale which would have been unimaginable twenty years ago. Iran is a major source of oil for China, that keeps China happy, a happy China is a happy Russia. Together Russia and China counterbalance the perception that the USA is the only world superpower. Iran is a major market for Russian aircraft technology and asst other armaments. If this sounds unusual, put it into this perspective, the USA has often propped up governments that said they were anti-communist, given billions of dollars worth of aid, lots and lots of military equiptment etc. For example, Egypt in the Middle East, and the government of Augusto Pinochet in Chile in South America. Neither of those countries then resembled any stretch of the democratic imagination, but they were anti-communist. Chile is more democratic, albeit with a freely elected socialist president, but the same cannot be said for Egypt, which has one of the more undemocratic traditions in the whole middle east.
True enough. That's all we need is a country with thousands of aging nuclear weapons that has pathologically low self-esteem, and a second nuclear power that wants to rule the world.
Which is why George W. Bush never criticises Vladimir Putin and Russia, but that doesn't stop aging attorney shooting and pacemaker powered foolishness from mouthing off lately. I am just glad George didn't smash up the GAZ-21 from 1956 that is Vlad's favourite automobile.
Cyprus. Steve,Cyprus came under British rule in 1878,not 1914! Gibraltar will always belong to Britain,despite what Spain thinks! Ulster will always be a British country despite what the untermenschen from Sinn Fein/I.R.A. & their supporters in the Romish rebel pirate state think! Aidan.
God save the queen, stiff upper lip and all that. However, I read somewhere that 40 percent of the citizens of Great Britain have never been in a church, and that the island will be a Muslim country in 25 years. Allah save the queen indeed!
I know what it means. Danr,I know what 'untermenschen' means.It is the German word for 'subhuman'. Aidan.
Quick dog,I don't speak either Scots-Gaelic or Erse (Irish-Gaelic) at all.English is my first language.I can read bits of languages,but I can't speak them. Aidan.
Quick dog,Canadians do speak English,but with a slightly different accent to Americans.Canadian accents also have an influence from various languages,which is why the Canadian accent varies from place to place. New Zealanders' accents are following a trend of regionalisation as well,not that many New Zealanders are aware of it. Aidan.
"As for the Russian Mafia, there is no one group that makes up the Russian Mafia but I do know that when I was over there it was the Chechens, who are muslims, that were the most powerful and dangerous. I have provided a link that gives a quick overview of this. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/03/98/russian_mafia/70485.stm As for the Kosovans and Albanians mafia I do not know if you are aware of this but they are also muslims criminal enterprises as well. The Kosovo Liberation Army is an islamic group that is also a leader of raiding villages and abducting women into forced prositiution as well as being big heroin traders. The Albanians who as you know are getting larger and stronger and have taken over Soho. A webpage that documents some of this can be looked at http://www.serbianna.com/columns/mb/028.shtml But if I remember correctly Rudy Giuliani future mayor of NYC as then Federal prosecutor in NYC prosecuting the Kosovo Mafia around 1985 and the Wall Street Journal carried the articles. There is a direct link between the muslim mafia,(Russian/Chechan,Albanian and KLA), and the Turkish government as well as Saudia Arabia.[/QUOTE]" To get back on the threads topic... The point is should a nation that is a leading exporter of drugs into europe be welcomed into the EU. The point is should a nation with close ties to the Muslim Mafia that deals in human sex slavery and drugs as well as terrorism be welcomed into the EU. The other points were should a nation that invaded a Christian Republic in 1974 and committed and is still commiting religious and racial cleansing in that Republic be allowed into the EU. The other points were should a nation that commited genocide upon millions of Christians in Turkey and in Turkish controlled lands and ignores that it ever happened be allowed into the EU. The other points were should a nation that once tried to conquer Europe and controlled parts of it for centuries be allowed into the EU when they still have religious leaders speaking of doing it again.
Umm... most of the other nations in the EU don't have empty closets, Andy. Germany(WW1 & 2), France(cowards, sellers of nuke stuff to Iraq, assorted stupidity), and the rest I'm sure have other things. I guess what you are saying is that the Turks never apologized and are still doing these things, so they shouldn't be allowed in, but if you ask me the EU is an immoral collaboration of governments that is just another step toward a one-world-government that terrorizes Christians and others, especially with nations like Russia, China, Germany, France, Brazil, Venezuala, etc ... etc.. around. But this is just my opinion. Feel free to have your own opinion on the situation.
