Official: 27 dead in Conn. school shooting including 18 children

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JoeNation, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but I do not on a gun and do not plan on doing so.
     
  2. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    Nice chatting with you, Takiji. Have a great Christmas (or holiday, or whatever you prefer). One thing we need to remember is that a tragedy like this is ofttimes, sad to say, unpreventable. Some people are insistent on carrying out their mad dreams regardless of the tools they use. I had a dear friend who was killed in the Oklahoma City Bombing in 1995. It would be silly to blame the bomb that was used; I blame the perpetrators. Sometimes, people with that type of agenda are impossible to detect until it's too late. That may have been the same case in Sandy Hook. Or Columbine. Or Virginia Tech. Society needs to focus on people who might carry out these horrendous crimes and stopping them instead of blaming, knee-jerk style, their weapon of choice after-the-fact.

    This is what I truly, sincerely hope is what President Obama meant when he said, "Things need to change". We should probably begin at the elementary educational level, but we can do better than this. Our Founding Fathers ensured our right to bear arms for a reason. They knew that it was the peoples' last and sometimes only line of defense. They undoubtedly knew that the future would bring challenges to that right, but as a society, we would be able to work through the challenges. Our Second Amendment has served the people well for over 200 years. Certainly, there are people who will abuse their rights, but if we take their rights away, we also relinquish our own. Is that what we really want?
     
  3. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    It goes dark blue (Mexico), Med Blue (US) and Light Blue (Canada). Kind of what I would expect based upon what I posted. Many areas on the map do that.

    I would say "Which we contribute to with our failed drug and foreign policies" but 6 one way, half a dozen the other.
     
  4. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    I would encourage you to travel...long & far...and keep the fantasy that the rest of the world is so much safer than the US.
     
  5. Yu-Hsing Chen

    Yu-Hsing Chen New Member

    I agree with a good deal of this, though I must point out that while this held true for the Timothey McVeigh, the Newton shooter was 20 years ago, basically still a teenager, and one that has severe mental social issues. kids like him and the Columbine kids are unlikly to have been able to say... built a bomb and blew up the school to the same effect for obvious reasons. other wise similar things would be happening all over the world, since I'm fairly sure everyone agree that mentally and/or socially distressed kids are not exactly a "only in America" thing.

    Now, I totally agree that knee-jerk reactions and half-arsed reactions are essentially useless of even counter productive, but the tools argument must be on the table, would you argue that if those kids had RPGs they wouldn't have done more damage?

    Given that no one is arguing for a total gun ban, and pratically speaking with about as many guns in circulation (and possibly more) than people, it's impossible anyway. the policy might as well shift toward the other end.

    The found fathers are often brought up in 2nd amendment debates, but the original intention there had much to do with the militias which existed as essentially the only military defense of the US at the time, this is no longer true. most of these crazy shootings are done by kids from familes which had little business in owning guns (aka safe and developed rural communities).

    I would actually purpose the other extreme in a similar sense to your argument being the reinstatement of the draft, and actually do partial training at a younger age too, i'm not talking about sending everyone oversea to fight, but rather part take in real militia training at the state level, and be in capacity to serve in basic duties and/or disastor relieves. there's a lot of potential positives in this, but in all honesty, doing this seems about as politically impossible now as a full gun ban.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    Not necessarily. Timothy McVeigh was only 26 years old (not very much older than the Sandy Hook shooter) when he built the bomb. Yes, McVeigh had military training and probably knew more about mass destruction than Adam Lanza. Additionally, McVeigh had help building the bomb, whereas Lanza appears to have acted alone.

    That's perfectly true. But, the American culture is unique in the United States. I'm not just talking about "gun culture". There are many countries in the world where children are routinely armed. They're taught the danger of the weapons and seem to respect the damage they can inflict. Once in a while, one goes on a rampage though. There's a bad apple in every bunch. The culture I'm talking about in the US, however is one that increasingly has little or no respect for life. Abortion-on-demand is commonplace. Fewer and fewer people consider the unborn child within a mother's womb as "life" and it can therefore be treated like a piece of garbage. Violent video games that portray opponent's heads being blown off dull the senses of the gamers to a certain degree. The violence depicted in movies and on TV further desensitize viewers to violence. Violence has become all too commonplace in the US and when we see someone like Adam Lanza act out on those tendencies, we appear shocked when we should be focusing on the reasons for his actions (not the tools he used).

    Certainly. We need to keep RPGs out of the hands of kids, just like we need to keep nuclear weapons out the hands of Iran. If an adult is properly trained in the the use and function of RPGs, I see no reason for him not to be able to practice and discharge them at a proper firing facility.

    If by "the other end" you mean focusing on early detection of violent tendencies and implementing procedures to ensure such tragedies are minimized, then I'd say you're on the right track.

    The Supreme Court has ruled on the Second Amendment beyond what is stated in the Constitution: To wit: In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two landmark decisions concerning the Second Amendment. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. (source: Wikipedia).


    I wouldn't be averse to that idea, but you might get a lot of flak from the liberals. Forced army training isn't something they believe in. The even keep military recruiters out of colleges that receive federal money! Go figure...
     
  7. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    I wonder just how anti-gun the anti-gun people really are.


    http://tpo.net/anti_gun_senator/
     
    3 people like this.
  8. katsung47

    katsung47 Well-Known Member

    Hired Actor Exposed-Sandy Hook (Please Read Info Box)



    Hook Dad Smiling in the Wake of Massacre.(Read Info Box)



    Fathers of slain children do not go around joking and laughing the next day this guy is a fraud and he is an actor and so is the aunt that spoke before him and this entire shooting is a scam to take away gun right for a much bigger global domination plan
     
  9. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    Seems a lot of libs are against private ownership of guns for everyone else.
    Such hypocrites!
     
    2 people like this.
  10. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    I wonder why we did not hear about this shooting!

    http://sensaybadd.tumblr.com/post/39323805472/seraphicmockingjay-on-sunday-december-17
    Try reading the rest of the story and you might figure out why (unless your are Teddy).
     
  11. katsung47

    katsung47 Well-Known Member

    Woman Claims Her Daughter's Photo was used for a Sandy Hook Shooting Victim


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAsVmzBX8F0

    Published on Jan 2, 2013

    Sandy Hook Shooting Victim Allison Wyatt does not exist. Her photo was stolen from her mother's Flickr page. The girl's name is Lily Gaubert and she is alive and well.
     
  12. katsung47

    katsung47 Well-Known Member

    Allison Wyatt was said a victim of Sandy Hook shootings.

    [​IMG]

    Mother says her daughter’s photo is stolen.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. katsung47

    katsung47 Well-Known Member

    A 'fortunate group' to know 'Allie'
    Amanda Cuda
    Updated 10:37 pm, Thursday, December 20, 2012

    "You are a very fortunate group," said the Rev. Walter L. Pitman, who led the service. "At some point over the past six years, Allie Wyatt got in your way and you are better for it."

    No family or friends spoke at the service, attended by several hundred people. It was only Pitman, who is actually a senior pastor at another church in Southbury.

    He said he didn't know the Wyatt family before last week's tragedy, but has spent some time over the past few days getting to know them and their beloved Allie.

    http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/A-fortunate-group-to-know-Allie-4135366.php#ixzz2Gy5rVgcs
     
  14. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    Some certainly are, but the majority (likely) own guns themselves and are only interested in instituting more-or-less minor regulations that close some rather gaping holes in current gun-policy.

    One of the better propositions is the idea that we should prevent someone from buying large quantities of guns at gun shows in order to sell them (illegally) to criminals. That is something you yourself should be able to agree on, as the worst thing we can do is ignore this rather gaping loophole in the law.
     
  15. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    If that is actually happening, then I think that is a much better place to concentrate resources than a Scary Looking Weapons Ban. Until we can solve the problem of illegal gun possession and illegal gun selling, the real gun problem in this country will not be meaningfully impacted.

    Look at the big cities like Chicago where so many shootings happen. I bet most of the shootings and deaths occur from illegally possessed guns. And, like drugs, you are never going to be able to eliminate guns. Even if you make them totally illegal for everyone, there will still be a supply for those who refuse to obey gun laws.

    So go after the people selling them illegally and possessing them illegally and using them illegally. Like so many things, if we could find a way to enforce the laws we have, we wouldn't need so many new laws all the time.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Themistokles480

    Themistokles480 New Member

    Just wanted to point out this idiot's inconsistencies. Lumping every gun owner together is EXACTLY the same thing as you and your loony friends here lumping every liberal together.

    It's time to put aside politics and figure out something that WORKS huh? that is exactly the political rhetoric you claim to want to avoid. Until something is enacted and tested, no one knows if it will "work." You loonies are hilarious, apparently you possess some potent divination capabilities. You also included a right-wing talking point about armed guards in your invective, typical. Politicians, lawmakers, etc. ALL PUBLIC FIGURES are more likely to be assassinated than your kid, deal with reality for a change. You truculently rush into a debate, but have little to add other than contumelious right-wing garbage you picked up from pundits - try thinking for yourself for a change.

    Your river metaphor is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read, and makes absolutely no sense...no, rivers are not sentient beings, rivers cannot reason, rivers lack the capacity to move freely from place to place, rivers can not own guns, rivers do not consciously kill - they are entirely inanimate. Arguments like the one you are making here = exactly the problem with our country: if you can't make a logical and intelligent metaphor, simile, allusion, etc. DON'T MAKE ONE. All you are doing is muddying the waters (pun intended jackass) with your rhetoric and bullshit, and making the truth more difficult to distinguish for the less intelligent among us (looking at you Coin).

    Finally, an armed guard is not an effective barrier, is prohibitively expensive, and unrealistic. Instead, how about camera systems, remote controlled locks, and carded/keyed admittance systems for all wings, rooms, and entrances? Add cameras and emergency panic buttons that automatically call emergency services and you have, well, a bank. These measures are cheaper than paying a guard, and are an ACTUAL physical barrier. Unlike an armed guard, who is ineffective when killed, these systems aren't easily assailable - the private sector has largely moved in this direction, aren't you a proponent of the free-market? But why stop there, by your logic, our children should also be driven to school in APCs, and should all have their own personal bodyguard packing a .45acp, paid for by the tax-payers.

    It is funny, the right wingers here have a problem paying taxes, don't want taxes to help people pay medical expenses, etc. but have no problem with that money being spent to protect THEIR kids. Are you all card-holding, dues-paying members of the Hypocrite club, or just honorary members?
     
    2 people like this.
  17. Themistokles480

    Themistokles480 New Member

    The number one source is illegal straw sales, according the the ATF. More strict regulations on sellers would be a positive step.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    Same way I used to get beer. ;)

    There has to be a way to reduce that with guns. A combination of seller registration of who they sell (or gift) a gun to and time limits on reporting thefts along with background checks comes to mind.
     
    3 people like this.
  19. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    (In reference to posts 94-98) It looks as if we're all on the same page here, and that is in-and-of itself no small miracle lol

    What I want to see next is our politicians coming to the same conclusion, and acting on it asap.
     
  20. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    Realistically, how could that reduce violence? Registration is simply a way for the government to track those who legally possess guns.

    Again, how could that reduce violence? Say, the time limit is set at three days. What happens if a person doesn't report it until the fourth day? A fine? Jail time? What if the theft isn't noticed until a year later? Even if the theft is reported immediately, all it becomes is a statistic.

    I have no problem with background checks. But, even if someone checks out clean as a whistle today doesn't mean they're not going to snap tomorrow.

    When we talk about "background checks" it means "CRIMINAL background checks". A criminal background check only references the state criminal database or the the FBI's Interstate Identification Index (III). It doesn't reference any medical background (mental hospitals, institutions, etc.) nor does it reference INTERPOL (unless specifically addressed). It also doesn't reference any misdemeanor arrests that aren't in a state's criminal database (and most misdemeanor arrests AREN'T in a state's database, but there are exceptions). It also will not reference any law enforcement investigation the person is currently under.
     

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