Friendly question for all athiests (and those that are having a tough time believing)

Yeah, but were talking early AD, not now.


stainless

 

What you telling me they never had CUSTARD then

 

no, I meant the artificial semination thing..lol

stainless

 

Ah for a moment I thought you meant no Custard

 

Why can't people just follow Jesus teaching for what they were? Why do they need to believe that he is a god or son of god inorder to follow his word and if there is a god and god created all of us would we not all be the son's of god and have a little of god in us all.

 

because if he isn't God there is no need to obay him.

Surely...some rules are okay, but they are common knowledge..treat others how you want to be treated...I do that anyways.

However, if He isn't God, then I don't have to go to church, pray, and can do what I want without worrying about whether or not it is a sin (Hint: drink).


stainless

 

Spinzo or something said virture for virture sake, must we feel we need to be reward like a dog with a bone.

 

Isa, I completely understand what you are saying. Jesus, whether he is the son of god or not, had good advice...probably many of his sentiments were revolutionary, regardless of what he was or who wrote them its good advice on the whole. Certainly most of the ten commandments are just basic good advice for civilization. Do not steal, kill, do unto others, forgiveness, love, etc...remove the word god and it stands on its own. I have a feeling though it had to come from god and not a man, and threats of punishment and promises of reward or it might not have took.

In fact I follow most of these anyway. Not because a god told me to do it, not because I fear hell or want the rewards of heaven, not because Jesus said them, but because I believe they are all just basic good advice if you are trying to live in a civilized world. It probably had more to do with the good example set by my father and mother who lived a good life, kind, intelligent, helpful, etc...Do unto others is just sound good advice, common sense if you know how society works. You dont steal from others, you would not want others to steal from you. Its empathy...being able to put yourself in the situation and see how you might feel, it is what keep us from hurting each other and even what drives us to help others. I think most healthy human beings have a sense of empathy.

I give to charity, I pay to Caesar what is due, I work, I have a wife and child I support, I have a family I love and good friends. I dont kill steal rob, cheat on my wife, beat my kid, I respect my father, etc..etc...

I do all these things not because of Jesus or god but because that is life, a good life where I do not harm others and I take care of my own and do a little for others who might need it because maybe, some day I might need help. Like one of my favorite songs 'lean on me' says...

'We all need, somebody to lean on...call me...if you need a friend.'

Isnt this true for us all? We all have problems, why cause any more for yourself or others? Life is hard enough as it is, why make it harder?

How ever people get to this understanding is fine, religion, examples of others around them, recognition of a social contract, etc...

I remember someone here said they would not trust a person who doesnt believe in god to hold elected office because they do not have god to guide them...but we have seen plenty of times when what people call god has guided people to do the worst things...its like the person was saying that without the threat of hell and the rewards of heaven keeping him in line, he could not see any other reason why he shouldnt harm everyone around him. I would say that you dont need god and Jesus, you dont need to have faith in unseen things to be a moral, good person. and live a fulfilling life....or to be trusted.

But again, correct me if I am wrong but I think you are saying that all the supernatural elements regarding Jesus aside, its just good advice anyway...and I agree.

 

Except, what might seem like common knowledge to us today, what about back then? We look at those laws today as common knowledge, because we've been raised with them. Those didn't just sprout out of the ground IMHO, and humans IMO, wouldn't be able to come up with what is right, and what is wrong all on their own? That's just another thought I'm throwing out, no harshness meant, so please don't take it as that.

Phoenix

 

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Phoenix,

you don't like it when someone steals from you. If someone killed one of your close freinds you wouldn't like it. If someone hurt you in any way you wouldn't like it.


fact is, it is just common knowledge...

You don't hurt me, I don't hurt you...kinda common sense to me.


stainless

 

Well Jesus turned water into wine so drinking as such can not therfore be a sin

 

and you are from the left and I am from the right yet we seem to agree on an issue that people kill over. Isn't it something when people can just communicate with no garbage thrown in. I am sure there are others who disagree with us but who is living a more moral life. Those who do it for the sake of it or those who are scared of the lake of hell. and who is showing the god that is in all of us, those who except others regardless of faith or those who would kill in the name of god.

 

Some churches today believe that wine back then was just regular grape juice.


stainless

 

On a side note about this moral values thing, did you guys know that christains have killed more people and have done more wrong (not talking about sins like not believing, I'm talking about stuff like rape, stealing, ET.) than athiest's?

not trying to tick anyone off, but it was brought up, so...


stainless

 

retort would be that the christian religion does not have those acts written in the new testament like the Koran which says it is ok as long as the people being raped or killed are not muslims henceforth those who did those actions were not truely christian but were just misusing the word of christ for thier selfs and small mindness.

By the way you can believe in god or a creative force without following a religion. Miracles do happen, like life itself and true love.

 

True but I think that was supposed to be an example of a miracle not an advocation of alcohol consumption.

 

Hey the hebrews have a prayer for the drinking of wine, a blessing. and the romans had a god of wine, Bracus or something. Nothing wrong with the wine just the pricing that can be a sin.

 

I agree with Isa Red wine is good for you, check it out with your Dr, so Jesus was right

 

ok fine....if you don't belive you can do stuff like gambling..so there

stainless