1776 commission - thoughts by my friend, a Pastor

Discussion in 'Politics' started by GeneWright, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I'm not personally religious, but I thought my friend explained this 1776 commission well with a bit of a religious twist to it:

    Lately I’ve been hearing things about history education that have been very concerning. Our president is talking about implementing a new curriculum of “patriotic history” with his 1776 Commission. “This curriculum will teach kids to love America with all their heart and all their soul.”

    I’m not sure how history can be patriotic. History is what it is. We look at primary and secondary sources, and draw conclusions from there. What the president and many others are advocating for is propaganda, not history. They want to ignore the ugly parts, and push lies about our country that are not even based in fact. This is how Fascism starts.

    If we are going to teach that America is an amazing place for immigrants to come and experience the “American Dream,” we also have to tell the history of the thousands of Chinese immigrants who came and died in the gold mines of California. Or the young Jewish Russian women who were locked in sweatshops and worked 12+ hours a day in barbaric conditions for very little pay. Or the current immigrants at our southern border getting forced hysterectomies. This country has been sold as a land of dreams for centuries, yet many people find themselves in worse positions than where they came from.

    If we are going to teach about Manifest Destiny and how America tamed the West, then we need to teach about the broken promises and genocide of Native Americans that has gone on since Europeans first arrived here. How is it that Thomas Jefferson bought the Louisiana territory from a European country, when the land was already occupied by native people? How was it that Native Americans were given land to live on forever by the government, but when gold was found on that land, all promises were ignored. Native Americans only attacked settlers once their land was being invaded by a foreign nation. We need to teach about how the United States fought a war to steal land and people from Mexico, and much of it was done in the name of slavery.

    If we are going to teach our kids about the Civil War, then we need to teach students that Southern generals and soldiers were traitors who were fighting to uphold the institution of slavery and the ownership of humans. We need to teach our students that Lincoln only “freed” the slaves once they started fleeing to the North in mass numbers and forced his hand. And the end of the Civil War didn’t really mean freedom for many Americans. Black southerners often ended up working on tenet farms that were very similar to the slavery that was abolished.

    If we are going to teach about Black heroes like MLK and Jackie Robinson, and countless more, then we need to teach about the atrocities that were happening for them to have to fight in the first place. We need to teach about the Jim Crow and voting laws that kept black people from obtaining full citizenship. We need to teach that many Civil Rights leaders were killed for simply believing all people should be equal.

    I’m sorry for the long rant, but it’s ridiculous to me that people can ignore the injustice and hatred that is imbedded in our history. These are all facts that we can’t ignore. If these facts make you feel bad then that’s on you. Maybe it will help you to understand why many people believe America has a long way to go before it becomes the great nation that many claim it to be.

    And for my fellow Christians, Jesus taught us to love our neighbors, and even our enemies. He didn’t teach us to love our government institutions. Let’s keep that in mind.
    FryDaddyJr likes this.
  2. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    Look... We love our football teams even when they haven’t won a pennant in twenty years. We love our kids, pimples and all... Even when they screw up. We love our weird uncles and our ugly cars..... By golly we absolutely should love our nation including all of its imperfections. Love of country binds is as one. And mind you, we are allowing that to slip away. We are all too smart and educated these days to see the humility we should all have for the red, white and blue...... Nobody has glossed over our imperfections. I am woefully less educated than anyone on this forum yet I am fully versed in all our past screw ups. Yes, we have them and yes we rose above it.. Together..... Why this pastor would obtusely believe that we hide these things is beyond me. We do live in the greatest nation on earth. And here we complain from all the comforts that are given us through our democracy and bitch and pout when the slightest inconvenience is heft upon us. You know, we don’t even realize just how good we live and here we cant stop bitching about it. We don’t put up fences to keep people in. Not one person here has one inkling of what is at jeopardy here.
  3. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    How is Slavery Taught in U.S. Schools? Not Well, Says Study


    Slavery on U.S. soil underpinned virtually every aspect of life in the Antebellum South. The North, too, depended on the wealth slavery generated; its profits fueled westward expansion. Racist ideology explicitly developed to justify slavery. Slavery is the central cause of the bloody Civil War.

    Those are core, fundamental aspects of American history, ones that virtually all historians of the United States agree on. But most students are not being taught them in school, concludes a damning report from the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights and advocacy organization.

    Instead, what students are taught about slavery is fragmentary, without context, and worst of all, sentimentalized or sanitized, says the report, released last week.

    “The most troubling finding is that usually there is no systematic approach to teaching this topic,” said Maureen Costello, the director of Teaching Tolerance, an SPLC project. “They learn about Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, or Frederick Douglass very early on as heroes who oppose slavery. And they are not taught what slavery is, until 4th or 5th grade, and often in surprising ways.”

    In all, the report comes as a stunning indictment of how the U.S. education system has approached the teaching of this important subject. One of its subtexts is that American history is taught as a story of progress, even as current events—such as the rollback of portions of the Voting Rights Act, discrimination in the criminal justice system, and the continuing segregation of schools and neighborhoods—show how slavery’s legacy reverberates throughout public policy today.

    “Students who are struggling to understand Black Lives Matter ... can’t fully understand it or invest in it without learning about slavery,” said Jackie Katz, a U.S. history teacher in Wellesley, Mass. “Students have a lot invested in modern narratives about the America Dream.”

    Assessing the Landscape
    The report is based on an examination of student and teacher surveys, an analysis of 15 states’ content standards, and a review of about a dozen high school history textbooks, all vetted with an eye to 10 key concepts on slavery crafted by historian Ira Berlin.

    The teaching of this fundamental American topic, it says, tends to focus on enslaved persons’ resistance or escape, rather than the violence it wrought on black bodies and families. It’s taught as a Southern phenomenon, a “peculiar institution,” rather than something originally sanctioned and protected in the Constitution.

    Slavery is virtually never considered alongside white supremacist ideology, which was explicitly created to justify slavery, the report asserts. The voices and varied experiences of slaves are generally excised, and connections to topics like the Great Migration and the civil rights movement are missing.

    As a result, most of those tenets do not seem to be reaching students, the SPLC’s nationally representative survey of about 1,000 high school seniors shows. In all of the concepts, less than 8 percent of students knew why Southern states seceded from the union; only 12 percent knew about the economic importance of slavery to the North; and only 18 percent could name an important result of Nat Turner’s 1831 slave revolt.

    Key Concepts for Teaching About Slavery
    The Southern Poverty Law Center evaluated the slavery instruction provided to students in 15 states based on whether the lessons taught that:

    • Slavery, which predated European settlement, was important to all of the colonial powers and existed in all of the European colonies in North America.
    • Slavery and the slave trader were central to the development and growth of the economy across British North America and later, the United States.
    • Protections for slavery were embedded in the founding documents; enslavers dominated the federal government, the U.S. Supreme Court, and the U.S. Senate from 1787 through 1860.
    • Slavery was an institution of power, designed to create profit for the slaveholder and break the will of the enslaved and was a relentless quest for profit abetted by racism.
    • Enslaved people resisted the efforts of their enslavers to reduce them to commodities in both revolutionary and everyday ways.
    • The experience of slavery varied, depending on time, location, crop, labor performed, size of slaveholding, and gender.
    • Slavery was the central cause of the Civil War.
    • Slavery shaped the fundamental beliefs of Americans about race and whiteness, and white supremacy was both a product of, and legacy of, slavery.
    • Enslaved and free people of African descent had a profound impact on American culture, producing leaders, and literary, artistic, and folk traditions that continue to influence the nation.
    • By knowing how to read and interpret the sources that tell the story of American slavery, insight is gained into some of what enslaving and enslaved Americans created, thought, aspired to, and desired.

    Teachers, too, had knowledge gaps. Only a little over half of those surveyed said they spoke about the continued legacy of slavery, and less than half said they used original documents in their teaching.

    Interviews with the teachers showed many felt deep uncertainty about the topic. Some said they wanted to spare children its brutality or were concerned about age appropriateness; others focused on stories of resistance.

    Teachers worried about potentially terrifying black children, or inducing guilt or defensiveness in white students, or generally having the topic becoming a racial flashpoint in class. On the other hand, the report says, too many teachers reported using “simulations” of the Middle Passage or slave auctions in class, despite the trauma they can inflict on students.

    Katz, the Massachusetts teacher, said it’s hard for students to get past the myth of the North as the “good guys,” especially since Massachusetts effectively outlawed slavery in the 1790s. “But then they hear about the Lowell mills and lightbulbs go off in their heads: ‘Wait a second, where are we getting that cotton?’ ” she said.
  4. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Convincing a cult following that their cult leader is fallible no matter how ridiculous and hair-brained an idea he spouts off really is all but impossible. This indoctrination program Trump is pitching is exactly what you find in North Korea. Dear Leader has watched and is impressed with the idea that he can force school children to genuflect at the sight of a flag and turn in anyone to the authorities that doesn't have the same level of steely-eyed pseudo-patriotism for reprogramming including own their parents. I told you that these deplorables would follow this penny-ante dictator straight over a cliff and I haven't been proven wrong yet.

    If you want actual patriotism, start teaching Civics in schools again and let kids learn from the founding principles this country is based on not Trump's Reeducation Academy for Stupid Hicks or T.R.A.S.H. for short.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
  5. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I don't think you're wrong, but country and government are not the same. Are you familiar with the 1776 commission?

    It seems to want to paint the U.S. in a misleadingly positive light. As he wrote, you can talk about the good, but the bad is just as important to provide context for our triumphs. Without understanding the discrimination and atrocities we've afflicted on people of color, MLK's words ring a bit more hollow.

    In a way, he's advocating for preservation of history. History as it happened, and not twisted into only heroics.
  6. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I have heard about the program and I do not think it is bad. But I see it rather like this. I have an adopted daughter. And I am the sun and moon to her. She couldn’t have a better father figure in her life. She just turned ten. Is it appropriate for her to know I had a failed marriage when I was very young? Is it appropriate for her to know that I drank heavily and used drugs during my rock star years? I don’t hide these things. Heck I just put them on a public forum. The proper day will come when she knows the skeletons in my closet. But what would it do to the mind of a developing ten year old to know these things about me at ten? Young people do need to recite the Pledge from their hearts and they need to believe they live in a nation they can be proud of. We have to shape young people into something whole and healthy. Only then can they make their own healthy choices when they mature.
    toughcoins likes this.
  7. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Maybe you should study the history of some other countries before condemn our country completely, @GeneWright. Yes, you laid out our faults, and “the little professors” have taught you well, but what they leave out is the positive results that have not been achieved any where else.

    There has been more freedom and opportunity in this country than anywhere else on earth. The democratic system has fostered incredible economic progress that has spread to all races and social classes if you were prepared to work for it. That is the key. No society or political system can make the outcomes equal, no matter how much they promise it. Someone has to work. Someone has to create the inventions, and to do that, they had to make the commitment to put in the effort and hours.

    For that they deserve to be compensated. If they were not compensated, the chances are very high that they would not have made the effort. Someone who sits on their ass and demands something for nothing has less. That is true in all systems, including your precious socialist system which promises that you can be lazy and indigent and live as well as those who work, the theories of AOC not withstanding.

    Democracy in this country has been an evolutionary process. In the early years, direct elections were only granted in the House of Representatives. The President and the Senators were elected with a layer between the people and those who chose those leaders. All of that changed over time.

    Slavery existed until 1865, and Jim Crow was around until the 1960s. Those problems were fixed although it took time, but our nation’s leadership addressed the issues.

    Conversely, things sucked in the Soviet Union from its birth in 1917 until its death in the 1980s. They suck now in Cuba, despite the promises Castro made in 1959. China is now engaged in a nation-wide genocide despite the admiration that many of you leftists have for their system. There are also some very rich entrepreneurs in China who are keeping their system afloat, despite the promises of “economic equality” the Communist Party claims. Socialism fails repeatedly, and yet you leftists never learn. Socialist systems never evolve to something better, because the concept is corrupt and inefficient from the beginning.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  8. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    How's the John Birch Society treating you?
  9. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    How is the Where Are Your Flipping Manners Society treating you?
  10. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    All the race problems "have been fixed". Thanks gramps.
  11. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Slavery ended in 1865 and the Jim Crow laws were gone from the book by 1970. What is it that you cna't understand?

    You are rooting for racism, real or imagined, to exist forever. Otherwise, you would not have anything to complain about, which all you do. All you bring to this forum is bigotry against old people, overweight people and Jewish people. With respect to those groups, you are as firm and outspoken in your views as any member of the KKK.

    In addition, you bring many assays that you copy from the Internet, plus very brief messages that I interpret as criticisms, which are untellable. I guess you have lived by yourself in the basement for so long that you have developed your own language, known only to yourself.
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  12. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    I was the one who said we should have let the Jews into our country in the 30's and 40's. I am not in favor of Zionism. you're confused again.
  13. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Anti-Zionism has become the code language for the left to use to avoid the anti-Semitic label for their anti-Israel policies. Since the Jewish people have done well, the left has picked the Palestinians as the “oppressed people.” The left is always looking for underdogs, even when the underdogs have meritless cases.

    If the Palestinians could accept the fact that Israel will continue to exist, and cease their acts of terrorism, there would be no “oppression.”
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  14. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    Do you realize property has been stolen from the Palestinians?

    you'd fight back too if it happened here

  15. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    See now this, I've got to disagree with. Why is pride in the nation necessary? Is it not enough to have pride in oneself and security with family/friends? I'm not suggesting teaching just the negative, or even painting things in a negative light, just as they happened with proper context.

    Y'all aren't going to like this, but I also actually abhor the pledge of allegiance. What countries currently have their young children pledge their allegiance to the country? We're on a pretty short list with the likes of China and North Korea...

    To that end, I was fortunate enough to have been born after the ruling saying teachers couldn't force students to recite it. Around middle school I chose to stop standing/reciting it completely. It drew some negative attention, but eventually others started doing it too.

    Here's a short sketch comedy bit that gets the point across pretty well:
  16. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    OK then. We will agree to disagree. Bear in mind though. Young minds have to be molded. When they feel pride in their families, their neighborhoods and their country, it serves to instill a sense of safety in their being. That’s pretty important stuff to a child. They have a lifetime ahead to absorb the bumps, bruises and realities of the real world.
    JohnHamilton likes this.
  17. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    The Hitler Youth said lots of pledges.
  18. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    Bring back the Bellamy Salute!
  19. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    So, you can’t accept the fact that the Jews and Palestinians might be able to live side by side in peace and economic harmony. For you it’s constant war and unrest until the Jewish people are forced into the Mederteranian Sea.

    You are the worst liberal I have ever seen. You hate certain groups with an intensity that borders on pathological boundaries. In short, you display a level of bigotry that I seldom seen in a person of you supposed age.
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  20. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    I didn't display any hate. You're nuts man

    "Mediterranean" mister skolar

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