Anyone but Obama

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Takiji, Aug 28, 2011.

  1. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member

    Knowing what I know now, if I could do 2008 over again I’d vote for McCain. But since I can’t do 2008 over again I’ll have to be content with voting for anyone but Obama in 2012. My preference for a president would be someone like Bernie Sanders…. Peter DeFazio. Emma Goldman would be great but unfortunately she’s not available and I doubt that there will be anyone of the sort challenging Obama anyway.

    So what will probably happen is I’ll vote Republican. I was seriously hoping I’d be able to vote for Bachmann but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen unless she’s maybe in the VP spot. And with those eyes she’ll be lucky to get that. But I think Rick Perry might be able to pull off the nomination as long as he can keep his mouth under control when it comes to saying what he really thinks. That damn book he wrote and was proudly out signing only months ago is a problem for him. And I’m hoping that no one takes a serious look at the reality of his tenure as Texas governor.

    The last thing I want to see on the Republican ticket is someone like Huntsman. But he’s not a real Republican anyway. If this were 1958 he might be a real Republican of the more conservative quirky sort. But in 2011 he’s borderline socialist and probably doesn’t believe in Creationism.

    Why don’t I want Obama? Because he gives the Republicans pretty much everything they want and then when the predicable thing happens and it doesn’t work out very well, he is stuck owning it. The Republicans are in the enviable position of being able to blame the Democrats for the failures stemming from implementing policies that twenty or thirty years ago existed primarily as Republican wet dreams and which no Democrat of the time would have supported.

    By voting Republican I simply want to give credit where credit is due and give the Republicans ownership of their agenda. And if America becomes a better place for it, kudos to them. And if it doesn’t? They can take credit for that too.
     
  2. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    Well, that's absolutely brilliant! The last time a republican was in the White House, we got George Bush. You REALLY want to go back to that? You think it's bad now, put a republican in there and watch everything implode (literally). The rich will toast each other and we'll all be F'd. Yeah...that's brilliant indeed.
     
  3. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member

    Short answer? Yes. Obama and the Dems are taking us to exactly the same destination that the Republicans are. The only difference is that the Dems are trying to make the ride a little more comfortable. But at the end of the line we're at the same place.
     
  4. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    I agree Obama has been a major disappointment. But the last thing the right had to offer for POTUS was George and Dick. Now who? People like Palin, Romney, Bachmann. Seriously? They're potentially bigger idiots than Georgey Dufis! Do you not remember what the economy was like? 2008, as Georgey was leaving office after his 8 years of dictatorship, we had the near depression, bank bailout. Remember? THAT is what the right will get you. You're looking forward to bringing that on? Wealth cheering on wealth? Republicans are all about big corporate business and make no apologies for it. They never have. The right represents the rich. Nobody else. I'm glad you're good with that and are willing to try it again. There won't be anything left of anything when that crowd gets back into the White House. You'll be beggin for Obama. With reasoning like yours, nobody stands a friggin chance.
     
    3 people like this.
  5. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member

    You obviously understand the fact that we a wholly corporate-owned. I've seen it in your posts. You ask who represents the rich. Do you think the Republicans do but the Democrats don't?
    They all do. What have the Democrats done over the last decade or two other than sugarcoat the Republican agenda?
     
  6. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    Repulbicans are jumping from the frying fan right into the fire. What you seem to fail to be understanding, it that when you vote republican, you vote for the super wealthy, and you piss on the average Joe. The republicans care ONLY about other republicans, and their rich contributors. That's it bud! They could give a flying f about you or me. They'd just as soon piss on us rather than look at us. Putting republicans in the White House ensures that the rich will become richer, corporations will continue to squash the little guy. SSI will be gone (I hope you don't have any grandparents). Your kid won't get an education because the right wants to cut,cut,cut while they collect, collect, collect.
    In short. Republicans equal extreme wealth will rule, like a dictatorship, over society. Republicans are the absolute last possible choice you should ever consider for anything (unless you're rich, then they're your guys). If you think the mega wealthy becoming more wealthy while the rest of society goes down the tubes, vote republican. It will. They'll pick up right where Bush left off.....right into mega depression. That's what they do. The right answers only to the money. Noone else. I'd vote for any convicted murderer, bank robber, child killer, well before I would vote republican.
    Republicans support the rich.
    They do not support the middle class, and certainly not the poor. They're elitists.
     
    3 people like this.
  7. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    You mean the much lower unemployment? So much less debt? A AAA+ credit rating? 1/3 fewer wars? Cheaper gas?
    That is what you were referring to, right?
     
  8. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    Bernie Sanders? Too much of a socialist for my tastes. Peter DeFazio? Seems alright, but perhaps a bit too progressive. Emma Goldman? I don't care for anarchy and her refusal to condemn Czolgosz for committing murder... nah, not my cup of tea either.

    Intelligent move. But, what do you see in Bachmann that inspires you? She's nothing like Bernie Sanders or Emma Goldman.

    Not everything. When the Dems were in control of Congress and the White House, they shoved Obamacare down our throats. There was no compromise on that. The American public didn't like it and told Obama so in November, 2010. Now, Obama must compromise if he wants to get anything done. He's not a good politician and doesn't have principles to stand on, so he blows with the wind. I don't blame you for not wanting to vote for him again.

    That doesn't sound very principled to me. If you don't like the Republicans or their agenda, speak vehemently against them. Work in your area to defeat them. Vote against them. The Republicans are going to have ownership of their agenda (just as the Democrats are going to have ownership of theirs) regardless of your vote. If you don't agree with something, don't vote for it, work against it.
     
  9. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    I vote for Palin because the press was so quick to try to destory her and her family she must be honest and American. But she will not run for the harrassment against her loved ones was too great and she can make money just going around the nation and speaking her mind. I just wonder if the next president will be a saudi pawn like the last two. Even the bailout money went heavly to banks with large arab ownship.
     
  10. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member

    I think maybe this is what he was referring to...

    Two wars both off the books and paid for with borrowed money. One war against a country that posed no threat to us and the official justification for which changed almost monthly. Wars which turned into occupations and are still with us. Debt limit raised 19 times during the Bush presidency to allow him to finance his tax cuts and burgeoning spending. All resulting in a $236 billion dollar budget surplus with a projected 10-year surplus of $5.6 trillion becoming 1.3 trillion dollar deficit under his watch and that doesn't count the wars we were paying for on the side.

    An attack on America that Bush was warned about, but being on vacation at the time he was probably occupied with other things. About one third of his presidency was spent on vacation. A record. Letting Bin Laden escape at Tora Bora and the subsequent admission a few years later that he really didn't "spend much time" on Osama Bin Laden anymore. So much for Texas justice.

    Rampant illegal wiretapping and monitoring of Americans which Bush first lied about doing then defended. The use of water boarding, something that was torture when we prosecuted the Japanese for it at the Tokyo war crimes trials but became acceptable American practice under the Bush administration. Maybe you should go back a few years more and check out the America that Bush inherited when he came into office.

    Having said all that, is Obama any better in the long run? Nope. You should be thrilled with the present occupant of the White House. He's working day and night to make your policies palatable to the country and to insure that the results of the presidential power grab that occurred under Bush will be enjoyed by future presidents.
     
  11. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member

    There are different ways to win. Make the choice stark. Buyer's remorse is a powerful tool. Let people get a really good idea of what Republicans are all about rather than the sugar-coated version of Republicanism that we have now and will always have under the Democrats. Again, Obama is your friend. I can't understand why you don't get that. He functions both as the enemy you need as well as a vehicle for getting much of your agenda through while saving you the pain of not having to own it if it doesn't work out.
     
  12. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    Four more years! :D
     
  13. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member

    And considering the crew of losers that the Republicans have right now that's probably what we'll get although they managed to get Bush appointed so who knows? Never misunderestimate the Cons.
     
  14. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    I don't get your OP at all. You would prefer to vote for Bernie Sanders but since you can't you're going to do a 180 and vote in entirely in the opposite direct? How does that make any sense at all? It's like saying, "I can't vote for Jesus so I'm going to vote for Hitler". WTF!!
     
  15. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member

    Well I can understand the confusion, Moen. It took me a while to get to this place. I have tried above to explain what my thinking is here. But I added a little facetiousness and exaggeration, which I tend to do even when I’m being serious and I really should stop that.

    When I voted for Obama in ’08 I was only slightly under the illusion that he was anything more than a corporatist DLC Democrat. But better that than the alternative. Or so I thought. I was glad to support him both with my vote and like so many other people, with a couple of financial contributions.

    What Obama has turned out to be is Republican Lite. And I’m not sure that Hillary would have been much different. Are we better off right here right now because we have Obama rather than McCain in the White House? Yes, we are, but not by a great deal imo. And I think we need to look at the long term. Under Obama and the current crop of Democrats the Republican agenda is proceeding apace. They are getting what they want, perhaps just a little more incrementally than they might like. Flying to Republican Hell in Democratic first class is more comfortable than in Republican coach but it doesn’t change the destination. I’m tired of having a Democratic President and Democrats in Congress provide cover for the Republicans and their policies.

    As I’ve stated above I will support a credible committed challenge to Obama from the Left. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but if it does I’m there. And I’ll continue to support liberals on the local and state level. But I’m not voting for a Republican with a D behind his name for President. If that's the choice I'd rather have an honest open Republican. And then let him or her deal with the sh*t storm that their policies will bring about.

    Quite happy to continue the debate. Like I said, it's taken me a while to get here.

    RE: your sig Socialism/Capitalism, why indeed? I've often wondered about that. Maybe one of our resident Righties could explain it to us.
     
  16. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    Tak, If you think that things can't get worse at a faster pace for the middle class, just look at Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, and Florida. I also dislike Democratic corporatists but they are still head and shoulders above the all out corporate shills on the Right.
     
  17. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    What "socialism" are you referring to? Has there been some sort of socialist program enacted that I'm not aware of?
     
  18. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    IMO, whoever the Cons eventually pick already has most of their votes, so I'm not going to underestimate them. I'm hoping Obama wins but concede the level of hate towards him may cost him a 2nd term. Bush Jr. also experienced massive levels of hate towards him, but from what I remember, the hate peaked shortly after his victory, when people began to come down from there 'patriotic high' and became aware of his administration's disturbing activities.
     
  19. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    Using Gallups tool, at this point in their Presidencies, Obama (42), Regan (44), Clinton (46) had pretty similar approval ratings. Bush I (71) and Bush II (60) were the only ones of the last 5 who were very high.

    I would find it hard to say that will win or lose the election at this point. It will almost certainly be the economy and the debt showdown that is looming that will have a much greater effect. Along with the opponent, of course.
     
  20. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    Bailing out the auto industry, the banking sector, and the insurance industries was total Socialism. In a genuine capitalist system, those entities would have been allowed to fold. Socialism to the rescue!
     

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