Bernie Sanders, a threat to well being of the United States and the world

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JohnHamilton, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    If Bernie Sanders ever became president, this country would be finished. He would allow every person in the world to come here to get free health care, free college, free food and free housing. In the meantime, he would raise taxes to confiscatory levels on all of the people who have made the country work which would cause the financial markets to collapse. Anyone who has kept this country going would have to leave to survive financially. They might even have to fear for their lives because ANTIFA would be on the warpath.

    The collapse of the financial markets would ruin pension plans and 401ks. People’s savings would be wiped out, and an army of retirees would become wards of the state. Decreased production would result in runaway inflation, which is the implicit tax derived from economic mismanagement.

    The one truth that Bloomberg pointed out in the debate is that Sanders is the biggest hypocrite in America. The man has made himself into a multimillionaire and owns three homes though politics while he has preached socialism and the abolition of private property.

    Bernie Sanders has never done an honest day’s work in his life. He has no idea what it is to be an hourly wage earner who is trying to make ends meet. He is only concerned with creating a giant government bureaucracy that will run the economy while he sits on top living like a king, just like the leaders of the old Soviet Union, North Korea, Communist China, Venezuela and Cuba. With the exception of China, all of those economies have failed or are total basket cases. AND all of them have abysmal records on human rights.

    If you think that he will fix the environment and global warming, forget it. When the economy goes sour, one of the first casualties will be the environment. Few have made note of it, but among the industrialized world the United States was the leader last year with a 2% cut in carbon emissions. “The perfect state,” China, has continued to pollute unabated.

    Many of you might think that Sanders will never be elected, let alone get the Democrat nomination. Think again. His supporters are driven and committed, and given the fact the Democrats have over 100 Electoral votes locked up before election is held, any Democrat, even “Crazy Bernie” will be formidable.
     
  2. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Fear not! Trump has that covered. Fascism is in full swing.
     
  3. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Active Member

    You very secretive about who you are. I am picking up indicators that you were involved with organized labor and that you are now retired. If so, I would advise you to think twice before you throw your support to Sanders. I know that Congress will have to go along with some of what he wants to do, but even if he gets a fraction of that plus whatever he can do with executive orders, he will do a lot of damage.

    If you are dependent upon a pension for you your income, a badly damaged stock market could really hurt you. Keep that in mind.
     
  4. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    I am neither a supporter or a detractor of Bernie Sanders. But I will tell you that if Satan, a unicorn, or Santa Claus got the democratic nomination, I'd vote for any of them over Trump in a heart beat. The harm this moron has inflicted in the
    last three years will take generations to repair. From the annual trillion dollar deficits, to the environmental destruction to the institutional dismantling to the complete damage to our international reputation, the destruction of this mad man is total.

    We have swung so far Right in this country, a swing back to the Left will only leave us in the center. I welcome anyone that can bring this country back to sanity as long as we start pulling back from the cliff of oblivion of Right wing politics. What you don't understand is that this country will not survive if we swing too far to either the Right or the Left. It is time to take a hard swing Left.
     
  5. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    This is the one point that is so glaringly obvious that gets absolutely no recognition. Americans are the worlds worst at having short memories. The economy is chugging along fine at this point and time. So it becomes easy to sit back and gripe about how awful we as a people are at tending to our resources..... But just let gas go to five bucks a gallon. Or the inability to find work to feed your family. People will sing a much different tune then!
     
  6. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    I would wholeheartedly agree with this. And it is precisely why we have a house and a senate. I have always believed if all three branches were controlled by one or the other party, it would result in chaos. And I would submit that this nation has swung no more right the last three years than it did left the previous eight. The difference now is the left is so entirely off the rails left. The dismantling of what is making things work now that the left touts will destroy any semblance of a healthy and robust economy. In fact, I have long term plans to market my business in three years because I feel confident that this Uber-left swing is in our future. Last thing I need is to be of retirement age in a dead economy. Construction doesn’t happen when people aren’t spending money.
     
  7. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Explain why the economy always does better under democratic administrations. This is a provable fact.
     
  8. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    I only paid attention for Carter, Clinton and Obama. The economy as well as the National mood was abysmal under Carter. Things chugged along well for Clinton and regardless of what statistics or polls may say, the economy worked under Obama however it was not thriving. Currently the economy is thriving..... And I’ll say this. Previous administrations held the economy in high regard both left and right. It was understood that Joe Average American had a vested interest in a good economy. The current incarnation of the left does not have interest in a thriving economy. And that is the pattern of danger we face ahead.
     
    JohnHamilton likes this.
  9. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Active Member


    That is total nonsense. You have said that you don't understand economics and statements like that prove it. Are you sure that you not the policy adviser to AOC?

    Okay, why don't you prove it. You probably have another one of your canned charts that you get from the DNC. How far back do you want to go? If you want to include the first eight years of Franklin Roosevelt, you will have to find eight years to offset it. The Second World War ended the Great Depression, not his policies.

    The economy did well under Harry Truman. He had the pent-up demand from the war to help him. Eisenhower had a good run during the ‘50s a minor blip in 1958. Kennedy’s policies resemble those of modern Republicans.

    Lyndon Johnson ran the economy to the ground with his rotten Viet Nam War. Nixon did poorly in part because of the Arab oil embargos. Ford was a caretaker and no much of a president IMO. Jimmy Carter knew about as much about economics you do.

    Reagan got the country moving and brought us prosperity. George H. W. Bush enjoyed the hangover from Reagan until the last year. I give Clinton credit when credit is due for the economy. George W. Bush did okay until the last year when the debt caught up with him.

    The economy could have done better under Obama than it did. He was responsible for too much regulation and the constant threat of tax increases.

    So let’s see
    FDR 8 bad years, 4 good ones during the war economy.
    Truman 8 good years
    Eisenhower 7 good years, 1 so-so one.
    JFK 3 good years.
    LBJ 2 good years, 4 bad years
    Nixon 6 bad years
    Ford 2 bad years.
    Carter 4 bad years
    Reagan 8 good years
    Bush 41 3 good 1 so-so
    Clinton 8 good years
    Bush 43 7 good years, one really bad one
    Obama 8 years of mediocrity.
    Trump 3 good years.

    When you add that up, you get 25 good years for the Democrats, 28 good years for the Republicans. On the other side you have 16 bad years for the Democrats and 11 bad ones for the Repubicans. So-so comes out 8 for the Demorcrats (all Obama) and 2 for the GOP.
     
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  10. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    That's an interesting perception. The economy isn't any better today than it was under Obama, in fact it is performing slightly worse overall. What has increased under Trump is the massive deficit, the number of farmers going bankrupt, and the millions and millions we are now paying for golf trips, 133.8 million so far. The tax cuts for the wealthy didn't pay for themselves, they never have no matter how many times the GOP claims that they will, and Trump will float another tax cut for the wealthy to try and get a second term. Do you know that I just had my taxes done and I paid more than Amazon, Exxon, Microsoft, or any corporation your can name because I paid at least a dollar. They pay nothing. That is how our tax system works these days. The wealthy don't pay taxes because they can spend a few million supporting a politician and reap a tax saving in the billions. Welcome to America. We have mega rich and mega poor. The gap increases every year. And even though we end up paying most taxes, we don't deserve health care access, clean water, clean air, but at least they allow us to send our kids to endless wars. Ever looked at the veteran suicide rates? Even as the number of veterans drop, the suicide rates continue to climb. I have a friend who married a flag waving republican and they had two boys. They were raised with all the God and country nonsense you hear at Trump rallies and eventually one of them enlisted and went off to Afghanistan. When he came home, he was destroyed and eventually institutionalized where he attempted to commit suicide with a pencil to the wrists. Our children are nothing more than cannon fodder to these bastards that march them off to war for for political and personal gain. Warms have cost us trillions. And they say we can't afford health care, education, and living wages. Your situation may be different but so many people are living on the edge when we have the power to make this country work for everyone. I prefer to fight for those with small voices not those with corporate megaphones.
     
  11. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Your opinions are cute but they prove nothing except that you have opinions. Believe me, we know. Actual reasons Democrats bring more posterity are summed up in this non-DNC article.

    1. Wisdom of the Crowds. Democrats’ dispersed government spending — education, health care, infrastructure, social support — puts money (hence power) in the hands of individuals, instead of delivering concentrated streams to big entities like defense, finance, and business. Those individuals’ free choices on where to spend the money allocate resources where they’re most valuable — to truly productive industries that deliver goods that humans actually want.

    2. Preventing Government “Capture.” Money that goes to millions of individuals is much harder for powerful players to “capture,” so it is much less likely to be used to then “capture” government via political donations, sweetheart deals, and crony capitalism.

    3. Labor Market Flexibility. When people feel confident that they and their families won’t end up on the streets — they know that their children will have health care, a good education, and a decent safety net if the worst happens — they feel free to move to a different job that better fits their talents — better allocating labor resources. “Labor market flexibility” often suggests the employers’ freedom to hire and (especially) fire, but the freedom of hundreds of millions of employees is far more profound, economically.

    4. Freedom to Innovate. Individuals who are standing on that social springboard that Democratic policies provide — who have that stable platform of economic security beneath them — can do more than just shift jobs. They have the freedom to strike out on their own and develop the kind of innovative, entrepreneurial ventures that drive long-term growth and prosperity (and personal freedom and satisfaction) — without worrying that their children will suffer if the risk goes wrong. Give ten, twenty, or thirty million more Americans a place to stand, and they’ll move the world.

    5. Profitable Investments in Long-Term Growth. From education to infrastructure to scientific research, Democratic priorities deliver money to projects that free market don’t support on their own, and that have been thoroughly demonstrated to pay off many times over in widespread public prosperity.

    6. Power to the Producers. The dispersal of income and wealth under Democratic policies provides the widespread demand (read: sales) that producers need to succeed, to expand, and to take risks on innovative new ventures. Rather than assuming that government knows best and giving money directly to businesses (or cutting their taxes), Democratic policies trust the markets to direct that money to the most productive producers.

    7. Fiscal Prudence. True conservatives pay their bills. From the 35 years of declining debt after World War II (until 1982), to the years of budget surpluses and declining debt under Bill Clinton, to the radical shrinking of the budget deficit under Obama, Democratic policies demonstrate which party merits the name “fiscal conservatives.”

    8. Labor and Trade Efficiencies. The social support programs that Democrats champion — if they truly provide an adequate level of support and income — give policy makers much more freedom to put in place what are otherwise draconian, but arguably efficient, trade and labor policies. If everyone can confidently rely on a decent income, we have less need for the sometimes economically constricting effects of unions and trade protectionism.
     
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  12. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    I like this. It is true capitalism and is what makes this nation work so well. What I think this fails to realize though is that those that have the cash tend to hoard it when they aren’t confident. And change destroys confidence. Even from the simplest perspective, I will pay the kid down the road to cut my grass when I feel confident that I can meet payroll. I cut it myself when I don’t see sunshine on the horizon.
     
  13. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Active Member

    You might like that statement, @Mopar Dude, but it's not accurate.

    This thread was about Bernie Sanders, who looks like he might be the Democratic Party nominee for president. He would only agree to that statement if he could find a way to get a slice of the action.

    Like the typical socialist politician who gets anywhere, it's capitalism for him, socialism for the people.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  14. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Expert on Socialism now? Please point out the "typical socialist politician" that you are referring to. LOL!

    You're ringing the Socialist warning alarm just like the Nazis did. Sometimes history does repeat itself.

    How Hitler went from fringe politician to dictator — and why it's a mistake to think it couldn't happen in the US

    https://www.businessinsider.com/hitler-trump-comparisons-2016-10?fbclid=IwAR18TJVAPCWGjsXs1FRoeJ_rstjUvtk8slNkeMYA-nTk92ELr4qkxa6-hng
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  15. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    A snippet of the article above.

    One reason many people find the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency scary is that Trump often sounds more like an authoritarian than a president.

    Trump supporters argue that Trump's dictatorial rhetoric is a sales pitch and that Trump is more reasonable and less megalomaniacal than he sounds. They also point out that the United States has checks and balances that restrict the power of the president and make it difficult for a would-be dictator to seize absolute control.

    But given what might be described as Trump's "dictatorial tendencies," it's worth reviewing how at least one famous dictator rose to power and transformed a democracy into a dictatorship.

    Many observers have already drawn parallels between Trump and Adolf Hitler — not late Hitler, but early Hitler, before the horrors of the late 1930s and World War II (in other words, before Hitler became Hitler, back when millions of Germans viewed him as a refreshingly bold and strong leader who could restore a troubled country).

    To do so is not to suggest that Trump is or would become another Hitler. No one knows what Trump would do with the power of the presidency, and fanatical psychopathic dictators like Hitler are thankfully rare. But the parallels between the rise of the two men are clear enough that it would be unwise to ignore them. Especially because, as Slate's Will Saletan recently observed, Trump's rhetoric is, in fact, becoming more and more early-Hitler-like.

    Hitler himself went from fringe politician to chancellor of Germany in the space of a few years. And he went from Chancellor to dictator in a matter of months.

    If Trump is elected president next month, he will instantly have more power than Hitler had when he was appointed chancellor of Germany in 1933.

    It is true that the United States in 2016 is in far better shape economically than Germany was in the early 1930s. It is also true that US democracy has already survived about 240 years of constitutional challenges, depressions, megalomaniacs, and wars — unlike the fragile Weimar Republic that was Germany after World War I.

    But Trump already has more popular support than Hitler had before he eliminated Germany's democracy. Trump's party has more control of the government than the Nazis did. And President Trump would be the commander in chief of a military whose weaponry and power Hitler and the Nazis could only have dreamed of.

    So it seems worth briefly reviewing this period of history and thinking about how it might be relevant to today.

    From fringe politician to chancellor
    For most of the 1920s, Hitler was a fringe-party rabble-rouser. In 1923, as the leader of the tiny Nazi party, he incited a violent attempt to overthrow the government and got himself thrown in prison for treason (a short stay that he later used to his advantage).
     
  16. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Active Member

    This string is about Bernie Sanders, @JoeNation.

    You chastised me for hijacking your thread, and I started this one. I would suggest that you do the same if you want to compare Trump with Hitler.
     
  17. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    You would suggest, I will refuse.

    I think the link between Bernie Sanders and Socialism you drew is a very close parallel between what is happening today and what happened in Nazi Germany. So I have stayed on topic. You just can't deal with reality.
     
  18. toughcoins

    toughcoins Well-Known Member

     
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  19. JohnHamilton
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    JohnHamilton Active Member

    You are absolutely right, @toughcoins. Joe lives in a world of his own when he recognizes reality only when it suits his narrative. Poor Joe has Trump Derangement Syndrome. When a patient suffers from that, he or she becomes so obsessed with Trump that they can’t think of anything else, not even the potential candidates who might defeat him in November.

    As for last night, it was refreshing to see that many Democrats have woken up to what Bernie Sanders is. They recognize that he will get slaughtered by Trump in the general election if he were to get the nomination. The situation is quite similar to 1972 when George McGovern captured the Democrat nomination and went off on tangents like $1,000 free to every citizen. Beyond that, some Democrats realize that you can’t give everybody everything they want for free.

    The race is not over. There are still a lot more primaries, and Biden will have lots of chances to screw it up.
    I am concerned about him because he acts a lot like my mother did when she was in the early stages of dementia. She fumbled to find the right words and sometimes could not be coherent. Later she lost the ability to speak entirely and had to be spoon fed to stay alive for the last three years of her life. All this took about six years.

    The biggest ego tripper in all of this, now that Bloomberg has withdrawn, is Elizabeth Warren. She finished in dismal third in her home state of Massachusetts, which had to be embarrassing. She is toast, and if she doesn’t know it, she is out of touch with the political reality.
     
  20. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Always looking for external validation for your views.
     

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