Do Atheists have morals?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by What U ignore, Dec 13, 2022.

  1. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    I only know one Atheist personally. We work together every day. He says "God" does not exist. There is a proclaimed Atheist posting in the political forum. Most of his posts contain accusations and falsehoods that he will not defend. Do most atheists believe it is OK to lie, cheat, steal, bear false witness, etc. or is this fellow a rare exception?

    EDIT: :oops: My error. The fellow posts in this forum also.
     
  2. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    Yes, we do. I think it's based on an empathy derived gut feeling of right and wrong. There is no right and wrong without emotional damage to inflict.
     
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  3. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    GeneWright, posted: "Yes, we do. I think it's based on an empathy derived gut feeling of right and wrong. There is no right and wrong without emotional damage to inflict."

    This makes sense. You have an inner feeling. Where does that come from - your mind?

    Exactly what does this mean?
     
  4. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I'm saying that if right and wrong is derived from empathy, then I can only tell something is wrong if I can imagine (empathize) with the emotional impact it will have on another person.

    I can do wrong to a cat or a dog, they have emotional intelligence. I can't do wrong to a plant or a computer. I don't tend to harm plants or computers, but that's not out of consideration for them, it's wrong because of how it might impact others beings.
     
  5. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    Hogwash!

    It’s wrong to lie, even if the person one lies to doesn’t know it.
    It’s wrong to steal from another, even if they don know it.
    It’s wrong to cheat another, even if they don’t know it.

    Just because one doesn’t think they’ll get caught doing wrong to another doesn’t make their actions moral.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2022
    What U ignore likes this.
  6. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I guess I didn't express it explicitly enough, but the empathy part presupposes the other does know what happened.

    It's pretty purely a "how would I feel if someone lied, stole from, or cheated me in this way?"
     
  7. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    And which is worse . . . .

    The emotion one feels when called a name they may find offensive, or
    The angst another feels struggling to dance around the selection of what name to use, or
    The guilt another is made to feel after another feigns being truly offended?
     
  8. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    That's pretty off topic for this thread, but "worse" is pretty subjective anyway.

    Just to get at the heart of what you're asking, I think you should try to respect what people want to be called. It doesn't hurt you to do so, it can hurt them if you don't. At the same time, there are both kind and hurtful ways to correct someone who has made a mistake, with the obviously more moral approach being the kind/gentle correction.

    Most people aren't bothered by these mistakes unless it's being done antagonistically. And if you're doing it antagonistically, you should feel guilty.
     
  9. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    Morals do not come from God, or more accurately, from believing in God. People that believe in God murder, rape, steal, lie, cheat, and commit every other crime you can think of. So do people that do not believe in God. How does believing in God differ from not believing in God when both groups seem to have exactly the same morals?

    I have to ask if people that believe in God have morals? If you are taught by your faith that behaviors like murder, rape, theft, and lying are morally wrong and you do them anyway, aren't you less moral than those that have not had "moral teachings" because you certainly can't deny that you knew right from wrong?

    Now you might think that people that believe in God commit less crimes than those that don't believe in God. I would have to see that study and all the rest of the studies that supported that hypothesis before I would consider such a wild claim. And then, I would have ignore all of the history of those people that have done so many, many heinous acts of barbarism to people with different religious beliefs. Morals didn't seem to prevent any of them from wiping out entire populations of people deemed unworthy of God's mercies.

    So, if morals aren't the exclusive domain of the righteous and the pious class, maybe they don't come from any faith in God or any religious dogma? Maybe morals are simply respect for humanity and no God is required for that.
     
  10. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    GeneWright, posted: "I guess I didn't express it explicitly enough [AT LEAST YOU DON'T DUCK, DODGE, AND IGNORE DIRECT QUESTIONS like a worthless non-engaging person would], but the empathy part presupposes the other does know what happened. It's pretty purely a "how would I feel if someone lied, stole from, or cheated me in this way?"

    Gene,
    Where does empathy come from? Like how is that concept formed in a person? Were you taught to feel empathy? I was not. Since I don't think I have much empathy at all, does that mean I am not moral. I do not see any connection between the two.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2022
  11. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    While you are ducking, dodging, and ignoring my questions regarding the MULTIPLE LIES you continue to post, try answering this. What exactly are morals for an atheist? Who taught you what they are?
     
  12. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    I think I am getting empathy. I feel very sorry :( for members who dodge, duck, shuck, lie, accuse, and ignore direct questions from any member who challenges their nonsense. :D
     
  13. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    How about these "Godly" people's morals?

    Florida pastor and his son are arrested in alleged $8 million Covid scam
    Source: NBC News

    A Florida pastor and his son were arrested Wednesday on charges of fraudulently obtaining more than $8 million in federal Covid relief funds and attempting to use some of the money to buy a luxury home near Walt Disney World.

    -snip-

    The case dates back to April 2020 when Josh Edwards applied for a $6 million Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loan to cover payroll, rent and utilities for his family’s ministry. In the loan application, he claimed that the organization, ASLAN International Ministry, had 486 employees and a monthly payroll of $2.7 million, according to a federal forfeiture complaint.

    ASLAN International was ultimately approved for an $8.4 million loan.

    But when federal investigators showed up at the ministry's office in Orlando, the door was locked and workers at the neighboring businesses told them nobody was ever seen inside, the complaint says. A review of the ministry’s website found that the donation links were inactive and sections of text were apparently lifted from other religious sites, according to the complaint.

    Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...d-in-alleged-8-million-covid-scam/ar-AA15gFEn
     
  14. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    JoeNation, posted: "How about these "Godly" people's morals?

    Florida pastor and his son are arrested in alleged $8 million Covid scam
    Source: NBC News

    :rolleyes: How typical and expected. :D It is so sad :( and very lame but that's all most morally corrupt :confused: :mad: liberals ever do. It is in their:mad: nature. When they are ignorant of a specific topic, they either ignore the question or try to change the subject with something they think is comparable.

    The proof of my claim is this post made by a left leaning atheist. This is a perfect example of the usual DODGE, DUCK, SHUCK, IGNORE THE TOPIC, AND TRY TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT THEY ARE QUESTIONED ABOUT THAT VIRTUALLY ALL GIRLY-MEN, LIBERALS DO VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE TIME!

    Now, back to where this discussion was going before this usual ignorant liberal STUNT to crap the discussion and highjack the thread....

    @JoeNation,

    "While you are
    ducking, dodging, and ignoring my questions regarding the MULTIPLE LIES you continue to post, try answering this: Exactly what are morals for an atheist? Who taught you what they are?

     
  15. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    It's not entirely understood yet, but we do know even rats appear capable of it.

    Screenshot_20221215_085741_Chrome.jpg

    Further reading if you like

    Something to do with the process of imagining yourself in a situation causing similar neuronal firing as being in that situation is how human empathy is kind of thought to work.

    I do think it's a practiced skill, but you have some, there's a strong evolutionary basis for it (since we evolved as social creatures that live in groups).

    If you don't think you have empathy, it does not mean you're not moral. It's not necessary, you can be taught right and wrong by authority figures such as law or religion. I don't find those systems as useful personally as deriving right and wrong from within, but they're not less valid. I also think most who subscribe to those systems derive right and wrong from within via empathy.

    Potentially, religion may act as a way to train empathetic response by reminding verbally what's right and wrong. A shared agreement of right and wrong is pretty important to social animals.
     
  16. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    I think we are agreeing that empathy has nothing to do with morals. If so, I still wish to know where this idea of right and wrong came from. Some people eat others. Some turn people into slaves. People such as this believe it is OK. What tells them that it is OK/ Customs? The way they were raised in the group they are in? Are you saying that humans are born knowing right or wrong? If you believe that where does it come from and how can their be man-eaters or slave owners who don't eat their slaves.

    I'm afraid I asked too many questions at once. That makes any discussion go off the rails in too many directions.

    I think what I am sayoing is we are all taught right or wrong but when did this come about? Is it lost in history? Goodnight.
     
  17. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    What an idiot you continue to be. Right and wrong are just human constructs. Sin is a human construct. God is a human construct.
     
  18. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    [​IMG]

    Bail Reform in action! Hmm . . . I have to
    wonder what offense that jailed rat committed.


    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2022
  19. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    It was probably opening the cage so it could eat the other rat.
     
    charley likes this.
  20. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    This from a member with no morals, who lies and will not answer direct questions to defend his lies.
    Joe, you are a human construct. Unfortunately, there are some parts missing that cause you to be the way you are and believe what you do.

    @GeneWright,

    I have been away and will get to your reply after cleaning up the nonsense this member as posted the last few days. PS. Send me a PM to reminding me to get the names of the officials dealing with twitter. I answer direct questions. Thanks.
     

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