I have been reading a fascinating book recently that put much of what goes on in this forum in perspective. If I take this book at all seriously, you may not hear from me in the near future or possibly ever again. One of the lessons this book had to offer was that political arguments can do damage to the minds of those you don't even see. Just because you've never met any of the people you converse with, doesn't mean that you haven't done them any harm along the way. I may not know you at all but if my convictions about you are correct, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, than I have played a part in your downward spiral. This is not only inevitable and undeniable but at the same time probably irrelevant to you personally. You play exactly the same role without even know it. Another mistake on my part was categorizing you as Fascists in opposition to you calling me a Marxist. That was a reaction both sides are guilty of but also a gross oversimplification of the real dynamic. The problem in this country and many other European countries in the twentieth century wasn't Communism, or Fascism, or any other "isms", it was always tyranny at the root of each downward spiral away from democracy. The political movement each country chose to follow on the path to tyranny wasn't important. The end result of Communism, Fascism, or any authoritarian regime were identical in the end. A loss of human rights, a loss of freedom, a rise in nationalism, and the always present "trade freedoms for security" bargain. It really doesn't matter if you take the path of Communism or Fascism, you'll end up in exactly the same place. Once people are promised more security if they just give up on some civil liberties, they are the perfect targets for those who would deliver neither security nor freedom. And freedom is not free as they say. Freedom goes hand-in-hand with responsibility. In other words, you aren't free to be dumb. Any government that doesn't actively work to increase both civil liberties and security, isn't doing the people's work. Any citizen that doesn't recognize their own responsibilities within the framework of those freedoms, is no patriot. Evaluate your own motivations and ask yourself if you are doing more harm than good. My motivations are not served by participating in this kind of dysfunctional rhetoric. I know that and maybe one day with much self-reflection, you may come to the same conclusion. Are you really fighting for what you believe in or are you simply a pawn on the path to another democracy failure ushering in the next tyranny? Are you even aware of the part you play? Most aren't. Adieu P.S. I am unsubscribing from this thread. I will get no notifications if you respond.