Here To Find Common Ground

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Mopar Dude, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Allah just means God.
     
  2. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    Now I understand what you are ... a Muslim militant. Now understand, and was I slow on the uptake.
     
  3. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    LOL!
     
  4. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer Ready for War!

    You are correct
     
  5. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Forgive me as I had surgery today and aren’t entirely clear headed quite yet. But this to me is a study in our inability to communicate with one another.This comment, while not offensive at face value is precisely an example of what I believe is tearing us apart as a united people. We know the meaning and we know what it represents. However we also know it strikes an open wound in most. Were I to openly carry a Christian bible in many middle eastern countries, I would elicit the same “shock value”. So out of common courtesy, I would never do such a thing..... Is our inability to come together over our nations issues a simply a lack of practiced common courtesy?
     
  6. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    As the poster of that comment, I feel it necessary to straighten the record out. I take no offense at your take on my comment because I have seen multiple cases of what I'd call Neo-nationalism. Please look up the term if you are unfamiliar. I do object the the use of "we" as a supportive argument tool. It really has no meaning of any consequence when you don't define who exactly "we" is. You also use the term "most" which is again a meaningless logical fallacy since you never define who are the "most" you're talking about. I wouldn't say that common courtesy is at fault exclusively, the greater issue in this case is essentially a belief that another religious belief is somehow less than your Christian belief. I view Christians and Muslims as two sides of the same coin as well as the rest of the belief systems around the world. When Christians look down on another religion, I see the pot calling the kettle black. It's like war, everyone has to believe that they are on the right side or no war is possible. I prefer not to believe that I am better than anyone else. It's very liberating and I suggest that anyone give it a try.
     
  7. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Well, you misunderstand. I certainly do not place my position on this planet in any way above the next person. Quite far from it in fact. I am simply addressing common courtesy here. Humility is in itself the acceptance that my thoughts, beliefs or position is no better or worse than the next person. And humility breeds courtesy. Common courtesy demands I make my point without being personally offensive. If I carry a confederate battle flag into the streets of Harlem, I am being blatantly offensive and accomplishing nothing..... I run a business. That position demands that I be forceful from time to time. However being forceful does not mean I have to be offensive. I will always defer to courtesy when I make my point.
     
  8. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    I agree that common courtesy is in short supply these days. But courtesy alone isn't going to solve the problems we have in this country as I am sure you know. Common courtesy is by no means a magic bullet that will bring both sides together. If it was, I think that we'd have discovered it a long time ago.
    Fundamentally, we have a problem with facts and more broadly communication. In nearly any conflict throughout history, the first casualty of a looming conflict is the breakdown in facts and communication. No matter the level of civility or common courtesy involved, once the two sides are no longer communicating, conflict is all but inevitable.
    I think the problem is that we are living in two Americas that are unable to reconcile with each other. If that is true, common courtesy is the least of our problems. From it's inception, one part of America has always had a problem with the "other". The "other' being anyone foreign or different. A large percentage of Americans throughout this country's history have fostered hatred and bigotry towards indigenous people, ethnic immigrants of all flavors, and most recently, our immediate neighbors. It goes without mentioning that the descendants of slaves have borne the brunt of this country's obsession with racism and bigotry.
    You can argue that both sides of the political divide have catered to this ugly scare on our democracy for some and you'd be correct. However, it is far less important which side aligned themselves with the fear of the "other" at any one time in our history than it is to recognize who is aligned with them today. Because we can't solve the ills of the past but we can solve the ills of the present. Ask yourself which side is aligning themselves with these purveyors of racism and bigotry today and the finger lands squarely on the Right.
    My point is that we can never come together and find common ground and practice common courtesy as long as we cater to and excuse White Supremacists, Nazis, Fascists, and a president that actively cages, abuses, and kills people trying to escape poverty, corruption, and violence. I simply refuse to be courteous to people that support or are indifferent to these types of atrocities. I firmly believe that; The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Common courtesy doesn't even begin to address the problems we have in this country.
    Enough for now. I need to get to work. Have a nice day MD.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
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  9. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    As a rebuttal to socialist manifesto presented above, there has never been a country on earth that presented more opportunities to people of all races if they are willing to work hard and take advantage of their opportunities. In many countries your status in life is determined when you are born. If you are in the lower classes, you very likely to stay there.

    Why do think that so many people clamoring to INTO the United States? If country were a hellhole as “the Lion King” describes it, you would think that they would clamoring to leave.

    Here, there are opportunities for an education and openings in a free economic system to take your ideas and offer them to the world. Dr. Ben Carson, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs are modern examples. But if you come in with the attitude that you are a victim and born loser because of your race or social status, and think that the government owes you a living, you are very likely to remain where you are.

    The socialist model has failed repeatedly and millions of people have died as a result of it. People say that Hitler was the worst tyrant of all time, but I place Hitler and Stalin on a par with each other. Each of them killed millions of people. Both of them failed to deliver what their regimes promised. Extremes of the right and left are really two sides of the same coin. The key to national success is freedom, and without it, any nation that practices despotism is bound to fail.
     
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  10. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    I would like to debate with you in the other part of the forum the opportunities that exist these days for minority groups. I frequently compete in business with these groups and can offer some eye opening experience with you. As it pertains to this thread, frankly I do know folks that profess equality in public yet preach bigotry in private. I do concede that poison does exist. However I also believe that do some degree it may exist in both directions as well. And if a man is going to look down on me because I am short, fat, red, black or whatever, yes I will find it difficult to be civil. However again I have to believe. It is mighty difficult to reason and work with a man that is squared off and prepared to throw jabs at me. Somehow we have got to take off the gloves and do some real work to correct this path we have gone down lest I fear we we find ourselves far too divided.
     
  11. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer Ready for War!

    This is literally the most civil thing you have ever written on this forum that I've seen. I'm shocked
     
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  12. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    I am fine with that. You are about the only reasonable participant here so far and you seem to want to understand the problems we have in this country without calling me a Communist, a Socialist, a Muslim Radical. I can see your biases but that is something we all have. I'm sure that you can see mine just well. If you post a topic I am interested in debating, I will be happy to express my opinions as long as the conversation is reasoned. And I have no reason to believe that it will not be based on your previous postings.
    My predilection in debates is to push people outside of their comfort zones. Sometimes I push a little too hard. I don't tolerate fools very well but that certainly isn't your issue. Here's to spirited respectful debates.
    A warning; There are always the bomb throwers that inject themselves in the conversation. I tend to ignore them for the most part. They really only want to prove to themselves that they are right about everything and spend no time listening anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
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  13. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer Ready for War!

    If we can all keep our civilized manners up and our voices (metaphorically) down we may be able to turn this place around. I can "drink" to spirited respectful debates. I'm starting to enjoy the new you @JoeNation
     
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  14. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Coinblazer, your suggestion would not only be a working recipe for us but also for those we have elected. Seems to me the golden rule we were all taught in kindergarten would set our leadership back on a productive pathway.
     

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