How a Democracy Is Destroyed

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Recusant, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    The US has elected a president who will help it along the path to destruction of its democracy.

    "20 of America's top political scientists gathered to discuss our democracy. They're scared." | Vox

  2. IQless1

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    It's no different than in other, more ancient societies. An example being the difference between a Sunni or a Shiite. Both hate each other, believing the other is wrong about this or that, and have been doing this for centuries.

    I know, not a great example, considering the constant state of war between the two, but I use it as an example of where we too could be headed... to a constant state of war, one between liberals and conservatives.

    I've thought at length about how this tends to begin, and I have come to some irritating conclusions, ones that indicate there will likely never be any true peace between any groups larger than a few people, that there are inherent issues with larger groups of people.

    Imagine a small, successful pre-industrial revolution society, a group consisting of a few dozen individuals who live together in an isolated setting and will not have any contact with anyone else for generations.

    Up to a certain point, they live harmoniously with each other, sharing resources and helping each other survive in a brutal world, one where the defense of the community from large cats (for example) is a common occurrence that tends to keep the group bonded. They hunt, fish and gather fruits and roots for sustenance and there are no shortages of such things that could trigger a more desperate condition within the group, one that could trigger a "survival of the fittest" response in some of the stronger members.

    Even under these best of circumstances, where there is no obvious reason to begin fighting with each other, the group will eventually break into factions that disagree with each other. The prime culprit is usually something like one of them wanting more for themselves, because they are stronger, or do more work, or maybe just because they want more, have more greed within them, but that doesn't even need to be present for factions to appear.

    Generally-speaking, like-minded people generally seek out each other, in part for support of their beliefs, but also because they make each other feel better about themselves. Animal minds, especially humans, do not like being confronted. They prefer a more relaxed state, and like-minded people provide that comfort for them.

    The male and female psyche is also always in play, in that men and women tend to congregate with members of their own sex simply out of an understanding of their issues as males and females, that being around others like themselves is generally more a socially bonding experience where being around the other sex tends to focus more on mating than anything else.

    All these individual differences eventually evolve into opposing groups. Once formed, those groups tend to push further and further away from each other. In time, with sufficient differences in place for a prolonged period, war happens.

    The point is that, no matter how civilized we are, we always tend to form opposing groups, even in a society with strong bonds. It may take generations, even centuries, but eventually one group will leave that society to form another, if that is possible. In a society such as ours, that isn't possible, but that primal condition still exists, is displayed as a call for the other side to leave the country, to "go back where you came from".

    What does that mean for us, as a society? War, or at least aggression. Sooner or later, one side will want to take over complete control of the country and force all to submit to their will. How that manifests varies, as does the effectiveness of their attempts.

    Who is right and who is wrong isn't something that can be answered fairly by both groups, because one will always dispute the other, and so conflict is inevitable, in my opinion. I'm not saying it will definitely explode into another civil war, only that, barring a mass epiphany in one of the groups, there will always be an occasional riot or fight or attack that leads to people being killed. Due to the nature of our society, how dispersed the groups are, how intermingled they are, I don't see outright war throughout the country as a real possibility, but it could happen in small groups, where a local militia, for example, goes on the warpath to kill it's perceived enemies. That happens often with individuals already, but it is conceivable that a small group of knuckleheads will decide that they want to die in a gun battle with the cops, after trying to kill as many of their "enemies" as they can. Generally-speaking, most groups are not prone to such behavior, so I don't see this as a common occurrence, only a potential product of increased aggressiveness and isolation from thoughts and ideas foreign to the group's beliefs.

    Democracy, such as it is, will remain. Yes, the factions have split and will fight each other, but the destruction of our democracy is unlikely to arise from that. Asterisk. I will say that our democracy is strained, that it is compromised and can tear in places, but I believe that there are enough agents within the government, particularly in the justice fields, that can maintain order during those moments where democracy takes a hit.
  3. JoeNation

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    How does one trust people that deny facts, deny reality, and live in an alternate universe? Thanks to people like these morons, America is a joke around the world and they really don't care because the one thing they care less about than facts, is the opinion of the rest of the world.

    The cowards that voted for Trump and now don't have the courage to defend this Administration and instead choose to run and hide are the ultimate proof that they can't abide the reality of their own choices. They are disgusting unAmerican brain-dead assholes. They brought this moron to power and then hightailed it to their hidey-holes to watch America crumble while they cuddle up to their guns and ammo. They deserve to be shot.
  4. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    Thank you for that thought-provoking post, IQless1. I'd point out that the non-stop haranguing by right-wing talk radio and Fox News for the past 20 years or so has unquestionably exacerbated the political division in the United States. These propaganda machines have fed and amplified the march to more extreme uncompromising right wing attitudes by a particularly vulnerable element of the population. They've got to the point that they'll back an obviously narcissistic mountebank who habitually screws over people that work for him and hypocritically hires foreign workers at his businesses, just because he says things that they like to hear. It doesn't matter to them that he's hardly doing a damn thing to help them, and in fact has an agenda that will make their lives worse.

    "Johnstown Never Believed Trump Would Help. They Still Love Him Anyway." | Politico

  5. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    Given the past behavior of the absent right wing members of this site, I don't think they'd be bothering to defend the Asshat in Chief. Instead, they'd be gloating and crowing about what a "great job" he's doing, while ignoring and denying the existence of demonstrable facts that show the contrary. For a little while I thought that maybe toughcoins had a bit more integrity than the erstwhile long-term right wingers here, but he showed his true colors soon enough. He used exactly the same dishonest head-in-the-sand tactics as the rest of them.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  6. IQless1

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    Agreed. Right-wing talk radio and Fox News thrives on peddling inflammatory rhetoric. They show no shame that their con is a cancer on the country, is dividing the country because the more they do it, the more $$$ they make off of the anger and hatred they create. trump is an icon to that greed, that hatred, that stupidity, that complete lack of virtue and respectable behavior. His rise is the direct result of those 20 years of right-wing talk radio and Fox News efforts to make $$$ while sowing discontent.

    On the positive side, their efforts should also rile the liberal base to rise up and challenge republicans all across the country, and there is some evidence that that is occurring. Coupled with the effects of the investigation into Russian interference in our elections and the subsequent revelations of republicans actively working with Russians, in myriad ways, the admissions of guilt, the indictments that have been brought forth as well as the potential for many more, and the timing of Manafort's trial, scheduled for May I believe..... put all of that together and it looks to me like the republicans are going to have a very bad mid-term in 2018.

    So yeah, right-wing talk radio and Fox are making tremendous amounts of cash off of their fake news programming, and that has helped republicans rise to power (trump in particular), but the downside to all of that for them is that those efforts also instilled a rage in liberals, a tsunami of determination to wipe out republicans from local, state and federal government. Time will tell if liberals succeed, and for how long, but at the moment it looks like republicans are in for a world of hurt in 2018 lol
  7. JoeNation

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    I wonder sometimes how they live with that much personal self-delusion? On some level, they can't actually be that stupid or they would trip over their own asses and die from blunt force trauma or simply crap out their own brains. It does seem like sort of a group psychosis. I think at the core of this phenomena is an Evangelical inspired neuroses that believes in the end of days and is willing to take all of us down with their perverse beliefs. I for one, say hell no to that idea.

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