How American Muslims defend the USA

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Andy, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    1.(CBS) A U.S. soldier was detained Sunday on suspicion of throwing grenades into three tents at a 101st Airborne command center in Kuwait, killing one fellow serviceman and wounding 15, three of them seriously.

    The motive in the attack "most likely was resentment," said Max Blumenfeld, a U.S. Army spokesman.

    The soldier in custody was identified Sunday as Sgt. Hasan Akbar of the 326th Engineer Battalion. Fort Campbell, Ky., spokesman George Heath said Akbar had not been charged with any crime. He did not
    release Akbar's hometown or say how long he had been in the service.




    2.An Army Islamic chaplain who counseled prisoners at Guantanamo Bay has been charged with espionage and aiding the enemy: Islamic chaplain is charged as spy.
    Capt. James J. Yee, a 1990 graduate of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., was arrested earlier this month by the FBI in Jacksonville, Fla., as he arrived on a military charter flight from Guantanamo, according to a law-enforcement source. ...

    The Army has charged Capt. Yee with five offenses: sedition, aiding the enemy, spying, espionage and failure to obey a general order. The Army may also charge him later with the more serious charge of treason, which under the Uniform Code of Military Justice could be punished by a maximum sentence of life.

    It could not be immediately learned what country or organization is suspected of receiving information from Capt. Yee. He had counseled suspected al Qaeda terrorists at Guantanamo for a lengthy period.

    Capt. Yee, 35, was a command chaplain for I Corps at Fort Lewis, Wash. The Army dispatched him to Cuba to attend to the spiritual needs of a growing number of captured al Qaeda and members of the Taliban, a hard-line Islamic group ousted from power in Afghanistan.

    Capt. Yee, of Chinese-American descent, was raised in New Jersey as a Christian. He studied Islam at West Point and converted to Islam and left the Army in the mid-1990s. He moved to Syria, where he underwent further religious training in traditional Islamic beliefs. He returned to the United States and re-entered the Army as an Islamic chaplain. He is said to be married to a Syrian woman.



    3.Senior Airman Ahmad Al Halabi is escorted from his arraignment Tuesday, Jan. 13, at Travis Air Force Base. Associated Press/Marcio Jose Sanchez

    Halabi, a 25-year-old translator of Syrian origins, says he was naturalized as a U.S. citizen after joining the Air Force in January 2000, though this is a disputed matter. He spent nine months working as an Arabic language interpreter in Guantánamo and was arrested on July 23, 2003, at Jacksonville Naval Air Station, on his way to his own wedding ceremony in Syria. When apprehended, he had 186 unauthorized classified documents on on his laptop computer.

    The 32 charges against him made public in September 2003 included 11 counts of failing to obey a lawful general order or regulation; 3 counts of aiding the enemy, 4 counts of espionage; 9 counts of making a false statement; bank fraud and violations of the Federal Espionage Act. More specifically, he was charged with: Downloading classified documents to his personal laptop computer;
    Making illegal contact with the Syria embassy in Washington;
    Failing to report unauthorized communications between U.S. troops and detainees;
    E-mailing details about the base's flight schedule to individuals in Syria;
    Attempting to deliver information about detainees at Guantánamo; and
    Collecting 180 messages from those detainees with the intent to deliver them to known enemies.




    4.(CNN) -- John Allen Muhammad, one of the two suspects in the Washington, D.C.-area sniper attacks, is a twice-divorced, 41-year-old Gulf War veteran who converted to Islam 17 years ago and earned an expert marksmanship badge in the U.S. Army.



    I could go on and on with more examples but I think the point was made.
     
  2. zaneman

    zaneman New Member

    Terrible. Islam is not a religion of peace, and it can't be treated as such. I'm sick of people saying we can reason with these people. The only thing they understand is death and destruction.
     
  3. OldDan

    OldDan New Member

    This post isn't about coins, or haven't you figured thot out yet?

    This post is referencing individual terrorists by U.S. citizens as haveing turned trator and a real menace to society. That includes the 4 million- Muslims who only want peace and are willing to die for it. Maybe that is going too far.

    You sir may not be a Muslim, but those like you are only one step above the level of the "terrorists" that kill babies and old Muslim citizens in the name of Islam.
     
  4. ajm229

    ajm229 New Member

    This is a site filled with numismatists who also have views on topics other than coins. I have expressed my views enough on here already and people know how I feel, but let me say that valid points ON BOTH SIDES have been made, though the level of anger over the topic has considerably differed. I don't think of people on here as prejudiced idiots, I view them as people who have lived differently and longer than me in some cases who take a different and harsher view based on the conditions of their upbringing.

    I agree with what you say, but I cannot also dispute the point that has been brought up in here and other forums numerous times that unfortunately, the Islamic faith (which I still do view as peaceful with exceptions for extremism) is currently the only major religious group that still utilizes terrorism to a major extent to bring about social, political, and psychological change among the mass public.

    Nor are most of us on CoinTalk who have posted in these threads, so don't think we're biased either for our views.

    ~AJ
     
  5. zaneman

    zaneman New Member

    I can't say any religion that teaches in their HOLY BOOK, that there are only 2 types of places, being a land of war, and a land of Islam is a peaceful religion. Sure, there are peaceful practitioners, but you can't argue with facts. If you read the quran you would know that.

    What I find is most ironic, is that you come here, spouting off about stereotyping, and you then stereotype the members of the site.
     
  6. ajm229

    ajm229 New Member

    Wait... is that for me or him?
     
  7. OldDan

    OldDan New Member

    In an effort to show both sides:

    U.S. Army PFC Sbitani, a Muslim American in Hawaii who follows the timeless words of the Prophet Muhammad, ‘Patriotism is an unbreakable part of your faith.’
    "‘I find no conflict between my religion and the idea that I must defend my country’, says Sbitani.

    "Perhaps most importantly in the short term, Muslim America can and must become the first line of defense in the uprooting of those in the United States whose anti-American hatred is shielded behind a community’s religious faith and traditional hospitality. In their homes and hearts, amidst their councils and convocations, ordinary Muslims can make a huge dent in the ideological foundations of terror by simply saying, 'If you don’t like America, you are not welcome amongst us.'

    Now, this is one Muslim that I would sit at a table and break bread with anytime.

    "Finally, as befitting any comprehensive struggle, America’s Muslims can and must become full partners in her direct confrontation with those who engage in terrorism and those who support or finance it. Apart from active service with the military and intelligence communities, Muslims here can play other key support roles. Be it as eyes and ears of law enforcement in ethnic neighborhoods, as cultural advisers to FBI field offices, or as public cheerleaders of terror-fighting agencies, American Muslims can contribute vitally to the nation’s pledge to uproot terrorism.

    "Putting their hearts, souls, minds and resources on the line in this great American undertaking, this country’s Muslims can forever put to rest the nagging doubts about their loyalties. A true jihad against the al-Qaeda types could be the winning shot in the arm that the war on terror needs. Not to mention that in purely theological terms, defending America may well be something that is incumbent upon every Muslim in the United States.
     
  8. zaneman

    zaneman New Member


    Sorry, I was talking about sganjam.
     
  9. zaneman

    zaneman New Member

    I think Old dan has made a valid point. When I say islam is a terrible religion I mean it. However, many Muslims don't follow it the way the quran dictates, which makes Islam more of an ideology than a religion IMO.
     
  10. cyclonus11

    cyclonus11 New Member

    ...and to our left, we have another xenophobic right-wing circle jerk...
     
  11. zaneman

    zaneman New Member

    Oh yes, "we" all are "afraid", but I prefer dislike, as I'm not really afraid, of these people because they are foreign.........

    No, there is no xenophobia that I have seen on this site, rather dislike for people who like to blow up innocent civilians, mutilate children in the name of "Allah" etc.

    PS. I don't think your circle jerk comment is appropriate for this site.
     
  12. cyclonus11

    cyclonus11 New Member

    And I don't think religion/race/ethnicity bashing is, either.
     
  13. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    "America’s Muslims can and must become full partners in her direct confrontation with those who engage in terrorism and those who support or finance it. Apart from active service with the military and intelligence communities," Old Dan

    Nice thoughts but I listed three examples that might be of interest.

    1.ABC News
    February 27, 2003
    FBI's Saudi Agent Recalled to U.S.
    Key Investigator Brought Home in Internal Investigation
    The FBI has placed one of its two agents stationed at the U.S. Embassy
    in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, on administrative leave and has sent him back
    to the United States, FBI officials told ABCNEWS.
    Two months ago ABCNEWS' Primetime reported that before being assigned
    to the Riyadh office, Gamal Abdel-Hafiz, a Muslim, had twice refused
    requests by other FBI agents to secretly record conversations with
    Muslims suspected of supporting terrorist activities.
    The FBI has now placed Abdel-Hafiz on administrative leave and has
    sent him back to the United States, FBI officials told ABCNEWS, though
    they would not reveal the reasons why.





    2.DAY OF INFAMY 2001
    Arab translators
    cheered Sept. 11
    FBI whistleblower: 'Questions of loyalty' taint interpretation of al-Qaida chatter

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Posted: January 7, 2004
    1:00 a.m. Eastern


    By Paul Sperry
    © 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


    WASHINGTON – In a shocking revelation, an FBI whistleblower claims some Arab-Americans translating Arabic intercepts for the FBI spoke approvingly of the terrorist attacks on America more than two years ago.

    Former FBI translator Sibel D. Edmonds says translators of Middle Eastern origin working for the FBI's Washington field office maintain an "us"-versus-"them" attitude that's so strong it may be compromising al-Qaida investigations.

    She cited examples of mistranslations and security breaches within the FBI's language division, where translators with Top Secret clearance interpret sensitive terror-related information for agents.

    "The issues and problems within the FBI's translation units range from security failures to questions of loyalty to competence of translation personnel to systemic problems within their low-to-mid-level management practices," Edmonds said.

    She made the explosive charges Monday in a letter to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, an independent panel investigating the 9-11 attacks and U.S. intelligence leading up to them. WorldNetDaily has obtained a copy of the 9-page letter.

    Edmonds, a translator who worked closely with FBI counterterrorism and counterintelligence agents at an office within blocks of the Washington field office, said she overheard some translators express sympathy for the 9-11 terrorist attacks.

    "During my work with the bureau, I was seriously taken aback by what I heard and witnessed within the translation department," she said. "There were those who openly divided the fronts as 'Us' – the Middle-Easterners who shared certain views – and 'Them' – the Americans who were the outsiders [whose] arrogance was now 'leading to their own destruction.'"

    Not long after the attacks, Edmonds said one translator said: "It is about time that they get a taste of what they have been giving to the rest of the Middle East."

    She says the remark was made in front of the unit supervisor, also of Middle Eastern origin.

    "These comments were neither rare nor made in a whisper," Edmonds said. "They were open and loud."

    She says such attitudes call into question "the integrity and accuracy" of information Arabic translators are feeding agents.


    3.AMSTERDAM, Netherlands — A translator at the Dutch secret service arrested in October for allegedly leaking classified information may have had links to suspected terrorists arrested in connection with filmmaker Theo van Gogh's murder, a spokesman for the National Prosecutor's office said Wednesday.
    Separately, the Dutch Justice Ministry has deported one of 12 terrorism suspects tried last year in the Netherlands on charges of having recruited young Dutch Muslims for jihad, or Islamic holy war, immigration spokesman Martin Bruinsma said Wednesday.
    Dutch media identified the 34-year-old translator suspected of links to Van Gogh's killers as Outmar Ben A. or Othman Ben A. But National Prosecutor's office spokesman Wim de Bruin said he could not confirm the name.
     
  14. ajm229

    ajm229 New Member

    Dan said that they CAN become partners, though obviously not all of them will do so, as your three examples point out.
     
  15. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    The enemy within. Another mainstream news source that downplayed what should be public knowlege by making a major story into a little something that was hardly covered.

    Oversight report: Evidence supports FBI translator's espionage complaints


    By Ted Bridis / Associated Press


    WASHINGTON -- The FBI never adequately investigated complaints by a fired contract linguist who alleged shoddy work and possible espionage inside the bureau's translator program, even though evidence and witnesses supported her, the Justice Department's senior oversight official said Friday.

    The bureau's response to complaints by former translator Sibel Edmonds was "significantly flawed," Inspector General Glenn Fine said in a report that summarized a lengthy classified investigation into how the FBI handled the case. Fine said her claims "raised substantial questions and were supported by various pieces of evidence."

    Edmonds maintains she was fired in March 2002 after she complained to FBI managers about shoddy wiretap translations and told them an interpreter with a relative at a foreign embassy might have compromised national security by blocking translations in some cases and notifying targets of FBI surveillance.
     
  16. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    American Muslims and muslims who came to America to live but kept thier old citizenship have been undermining our national security for years and continue to do so.

    Can be referenced from the August 5th, 2004 Asia Times.

    "Melek Dickerson, a Turkish translator , was hired by the FBI after September 11, and was placed in charge of translating the most sensitive information related to terrorists and criminals under the bureau's investigation. Melek Dickerson was granted Top Secret Clearance, which can be granted only after conducting a thorough background investigation. Melek Dickerson used to work for a semi-legit organizations that were the FBI's targets of investigation. Melek Dickerson had on going relationships with two individuals who were FBI's targets of investigation. For months Melek Dickerson blocked all-important information related to these semi-legit organizations and the individuals she and her husband associated with. She stamped hundreds, if not thousands, of documents related to these targets as "Not Pertinent". Melek Can Dickerson attempted to prevent others from translating these documents important to the FBI's investigations and our fight against terrorism. Melek Dickerson, with the assistance of her direct supervisor, Mike Feghali, took hundreds of pages of top-secret sensitive intelligence documents outside the FBI to unknown recipients. Melek Dickerson, with the assistance of her direct supervisor, forged signatures on top-secret documents related to certain [September 11-related] detainees. After all these incidents were confirmed and reported to FBI management, Melek Dickerson was allowed to remain in her position, to continue the translation of sensitive intelligence received by the FBI, and to maintain her Top Secret Clearance. Apparently bureaucratic mid-level FBI management and administrators decided that it would not look good for the bureau if this security breach and espionage case was investigated and made public, especially after going through"

    It goes on and on yet people still rant how we can all live together in peace however one can not live in peace with a people who are told it is their religious duty to either convert others or kill them especially when that religion is not just part of their life but is their way of life.
     

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