I have been wondering about something and want your opinion

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JoeNation, Jul 19, 2021.

  1. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    I have been wondering if those people that support the Trump Party are proud of their party these days? You may not like Trump himself but are you generally proud of the things the Trump Party is doing across the country these days? Are you embarrassed? Are you not paying attention or disengaged? Where does your pride in the things your party is doing these days rest?

    I don't care what you have to say about Biden, or Harris, or the Democrats in general, I really would like to know if you feel a sense of pride in those that you support politically. If you feel like you need to ask me or others like myself the same question, by all means, start another thread and do ask. I know how I feel but I really interested in your opinion of those you are supporting. Thanks.
     
  2. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    While I voted for Trump I don't find myself in admiration of the man, his ethics or his brusque mannerisms. Those things are embarrassing to me frankly...... What I do hold as my truth is that success and personal pride evolve from within. They cannot be ordained or legislated upon a person or group. I believe that creates apathy and I believe that the disruptions in everybody's supply line are currently suffering as a result. I believe that less government encourages the masses to reach for greater goals and I believe that private business is the engine that drives our nation....... No, I am not proud of the things that evolved eight months ago and I am not proud of the shame that Trump left in his wake. These are not things I hold as conservative principals..... I will go to my grave believing in my core conservative principals and will never regard conservatism as the Trump party.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  3. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

  4. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Honest and fair. Thanks.
     
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  5. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    You already know how I feel about Trump. He's a self-aggrandizing lout.

    I am proud of the central tenets of conservatism, of individual freedom, limited government, the rule of law, peace through strength, fiscal responsibility, free markets and human dignity.

    I am not proud of a political party . . . not one of them in its entirety is fit to be proud of. I'm really not sure if I better align with the Republican Party or the Libertarian Party, and I'm not sure it really matters.

    Finally, there is no "Trump Party" . . . that's just a liberal-coined label to try and embarrass / shame conservatives who do not support Trump.

    I voted for Trump, but do not support him. I will not be ashamed of my vote . . . I was driven to that choice by extreme liberalism.
     
  6. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member


    trump is still running your party. derr
     
  7. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member


    I will leave out the derr but this seems to be true. It's also scary and should be to real conservatives.
    Senators bowing to his majesty to retain positions is not worth a damn to the voters in the long run.

    Again I find myself cheering Liz Cheney on. Not for her beliefs in general but for her dedication to true democracy.
    Whoda thunk it.o_O
     
  8. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Thanks. You are right. I have heard you say many of these same things again and again. However, I would say that you are living somewhere in the distant past with regard to conservatism. You see the Right as it used to be, not as it is. That does not surprise all that much. You often see the Democratic Party with pre-1960 glasses and that was over 60 years ago. When I see your opinions on any topic here, I first have to adjust my mental calendar and take into consideration that your perspectives are entrenched in the 1950's. Then I understand your opinions. Without that mental adjustment, I feel like I have suddenly been transported to Ozzie and Harriet's house or the Cleaver residence. It's certainly one way to live.

    The two things that struck me about your response, and I sincerely respect and appreciate you answering truthfully and honestly, are the last two sentences. Trump is without a doubt completely in control of what we used to call the GOP. Believing otherwise is an exercise in self-delusion. Nobody on the Right does anything without Trump's blessing. They wouldn't even dare investigate his insurrection without his permission. He owns the party lock, stock, and barrel. Sorry, that's the way it is in the 2020's. Hiding your head in the sands of denial is kind of pointless.

    The second point was that you voted for Trump but you don't support him. Oh! Not sure how a vote is defined as not supporting someone but maybe you are capable of more mental acrobatics than I am. Because if I vote for someone, I kind of figured that I have to take the good with the bad. I didn't realize that I had the option of parsing out my vote the way you did. I may not like everything Biden or Obama does or did, but I always figured that I owned those things just the same. I wish I had the luxury of only being accountable for the things I liked. What world that would be.
     
  9. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    It has been described most accurately as a cult of personality and it fits the definition perfectly.

    Cult of Personality

    A cult of personality, or cult of the leader, arises when a country's regime uses the techniques of mass media, propaganda, the big lie, spectacle, the arts, patriotism, and government-organized demonstrations and rallies to create an idealized, heroic, image of a leader, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. A cult of personality is similar to apotheosis, except that it is established by modern social engineering techniques, usually by the state or the party in one-party states and dominant-party states. It is often seen in totalitarian or authoritarian countries.

    It would be hard not to see the Right's devotion to Trump in the above definition unless you have already been recruited into said cult.
     
  10. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    On some level you're right, but I can sympathize with @toughcoins here because I would describe my vote in 2020 as against Trump rather than for Biden. Perhaps if I had voted 3rd party I could be absolved of support for either major candidate, but man, there sure is a lot of propaganda around election season insinuating voting 3rd party is the worst choice you could make.
     
  11. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    That is the disheartening problem with our electoral process. There have been some fine third party candidates that have run over the years. It may make you feel good to vote for them but in all reality it is simply a wasted vote….. Anyway, that’s a discussion for a different thread. Sorry Joe. Didn’t mean to hijack your thread.
     
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  12. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    I think this situation is validation that our current political system does not produce the best and the brightest or at least doesn't allow them a seat at the table. So why are so many people so attached to what has been not working for so long? You have to wonder.
     
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  13. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    Many of you would be shocked to know the number of conservatives who do not admire Trump, but voted for him because their favored candidate (1 of 18 republicans in 2016, if I recall correctly) had fallen short of the nomination, yet they preferred to hold their noses and vote Trump into office than let Hillary set foot in the White House.

    Trump carried only 45% of the popular vote in the primary, but defeated all other conservatives, leaving 55% of Hillary-Haters with nowhere else to go.

    If you think you're going to capture a lot of those conservative votes going forward, you'll need to do a philosophical about face to get there. We still don't believe in what you aspire to.
     
  14. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Isn't voting against the other party rather than for your own party really an admission that neither party is working for you? If this is true, and I can see no reason why it isn't, then aren't we all just doomed to never being happy with our choices of political leadership while endlessly continuing to vote for them anyway?

    And we like to pretend that we actually have freedom.
     
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  15. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member


    did you read about the 2020 election? and the 2018 election? trump crapped his party down the toilet.
     
  16. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    I've been saying I would like to see a more than two party system for years.

    Voting against rather than for is not a very comfortable reason. I've done it. My wife held her nose and voted for Biden. She hates Trump as much as I do but would prefer Bernie in office.

    In the meantime we're stuck with two parties and the Republican party is falling into disarray. To me the Trump camp is a bow to fascism.

    Cry socialism all you want. Fascism is a lot scarier.
     
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  17. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    I trust Biden to do more for a middle class or lower class person. Biden has empathy as a fellow human being and is a seasoned politician. I'm a centrist and not a far left person, so Biden works for me.
     
  18. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    Thentritht? Thentrith?

    Thomebody hep me . . . I waffed tho hard I thwawowed my thongue.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  19. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member


    here's a nickel, call all your friends
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2021
  20. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member


    why was this "edited by a moderator"?
     

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