Ken Burns: Confederate statues celebrate a false narrative

Discussion in 'Politics' started by FryDaddyJr, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Active Member

    Wow, this is good

     
  2. JohnHamilton
    Pensive

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

    Yea, words from a guy who has gotten money and awards from the left. He knows who paid him.
     
  3. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    A white supremacist Floridian speaks again.
     
  4. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Active Member


    He's from Florida??

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  5. Recusant
    Spaced

    Recusant Member

    Robert E. Lee opposed the erection of Confederate monuments for as long as he lived. What does a guy like that know about Southern heritage, though?
     
  6. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I haven't had the opportunity to listen to this quite yet, however I can already glean that this is another attempt to legitimize the destruction of public property by lawless lynch mobs. I get it. If the statues are offensive then have them removed by lawful means. I take no issue with that...... Please tell me what is the delineation is between a lynch mob destroying public property versus a lynch mob burning a cross? How can you possibly justify one lawless action over the other? Simply because one is romantically popularized in today's "eliminate our history" culture?
     
  7. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    While you draw a valid comparison, there is a huge difference to consider. Burning a cross is meant to intimidate, terrorize, and subjugate a minority class by the dominate class. Tearing down statues that glorify the intimidation, the terrorism, and the subjugation of a minority class is illegal destruction of public property, but it is really no different than tearing down the institutions that propagate the injustices in the first place. Statues and monuments just happen to be physical things rather than intangible bureaucratic entities but believe me, they represent the same things to those that have been the victims of these injustices.

    Imagine if the North had erected statues and monuments to Lincoln, Grant, and all the northern Civil War Generals all over the South right after the war. They certainly had the right to do so since they were the victors. How would it have made the people in the deep south feel? Do you think that they would have welcomed the statues and monuments?

    "Our history" should have been more responsible if it wanted to be preserved. Instead, those that claim it is "our history" continued to intimidate, murder, assault, discriminate, subjugate, and lynch anyone that disagreed with their cause-a lost cause. Their right to their history ends when they pursue their murderous traditions and practices long after they and their ideologies were defeated in this country. As a citizen of this republic, you have a responsibility to abide by the morals and social justice practices of the rest of the country. If you choose not to, and we have 155 years of them choosing not to abide by those morals and social justice practices, then we really don't give a damn about your history.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  8. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I can appreciate what you are saying. I cannot get myself beyond the justification for the lawlessness of the actions. We are a nation of laws. Otherwise we are simply an anarchy in chaos..... I suppose if my wife were hurt and I was driving her to the hospital at 90 mph, I am internally prepared to accept a traffic ticket. I will get my wife to the emergency room first, but then I would resign myself to accepting the traffic ticket. I wouldn't argue the legitimacy of my excessive speed to the patrolman. I understand that the law is the law..... When we remove that personal acceptance of lawless behavior then we are setting a behavior pattern for future lawlessness. And that is a recipe for disaster, isn't it?
     
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  9. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    All I can say is what I have already posted in the past. It's been 155 years so far.

    John F. Kennedy famously said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
     
  10. Recusant
    Spaced

    Recusant Member

    The idea that Ken Burns would advocate people going out and committing acts of vandalism is fairly amusing. He's doing precisely the opposite of eliminating history, and has done so in a respectable manner for a very long time. In the video he's describing the history of how these monuments came to be erected, and why those who think they should be removed to museums have a legitimate position.

    It appears that is what will happen with them--bronze castings are not easily destroyed, and nobody with the ability to really destroy them has come forward to do it.

    They belong in museums, not dominating public spaces. The history behind them should never be forgotten.
     
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  11. Recusant
    Spaced

    Recusant Member

    Those monuments have been lording it over the public for too long, no disagreement there. It is a legitimate question, whether they ever would have come down off their pedestals without people actually doing themselves.

    I don't agree that the ripping down of statues by the public is the same as tearing down the institutions that have enforced subjugation of a part of the citizenry. Public demonstrations that actually helped bring about the progress in eliminating government supported racism were peaceful, at least on the part of the demonstrators. Rioting rarely achieves anything of lasting significance beyond the destruction it enables.

    I agree with you completely regarding what the Confederate monuments represent. Though I was well aware of the history behind them, the Ken Burns interview in the OP gives it in succinct form.

    Certainly there are Southerners who see the monuments as an expression of their heritage; a veneration of gallant ancestors. That those gallant ancestors were, when it comes down to brass tacks, fighting to preserve slavery in the US is incidental, in the minds of many of them. There are also those who still believe in the Lost Cause narrative, which of course justifies their belief that the Confederate monuments deserve their prominent placement. One of my good friends is a vehement believer in the Lost Cause narrative, and nobody is going to convince him that it's a fiction. Such people will never really understand why the monuments don't belong in public spaces. Fortunately they will not win the day.

    The movement to take the statues down was already getting results. The impatience of the demonstrators here is completely understandable, but that doesn't excuse what they did, in my opinion.

    I would draw a distinction between history and the public glorification of the Confederacy. One should be learned and understood by every responsible citizen. The other should never have happened, and I support the removal of the statues from public spaces, though I don't support people taking it upon themselves to do it.
     
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  12. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    It sort of blows me away that anyone, no matter the credentials they bring to the table, had better not express an opinion counter to the prevailing paranoia, bigotry, racism, and group-think of the Right-wing cult of Trump, or else.

    Ken Burns is an icon of scholarly historical documentaries but all that means nothing to people steeped so deeply in the cult of Trump.

    Anyway, if you want to watch a really, really good documentary on the subject of the treatment of African Americans in this country since it's founding, here is one that everyone should watch before even attempting to express any opinions on the topic. I realize that the local cult members will never spend a minute watching anything with learning or truth involved but the rest of us can still witness the history they are so proud of.

    The documentary 13th (1 hour 40 minutes). It’s available on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80091741

    If you don’t have Netflix, you can access the entire documentary for free on You Tube:

    These are 12 charts that show how racial disparities persist across wealth, health, education and beyond: https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...t-across-wealth-health-and-beyond/3201129001/
     

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