Liability Waivers

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Mopar Dude, Jun 22, 2023.

  1. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I keep seeing stories of how these folks lost on the tourist submarine signed injury/death waivers. I am betting that holds true for wealthy folks that want to ride one of the space capsules as well.... Heck we see them all the time. I coached little league ball for years and one of the primary reasons (other than old age) that I gave it up was the constant barrage of legal waivers and such. They even got to the point that we could no longer practice the kids anywhere but the county ballfields... A tough task with four ballfields and twenty teams.

    Even with waivers being signed, I am sure the lawyers will have a field day if the worst is realized for these poor folks on the tourist sub. How far do you take it though? Go to the amusement park and sign a waiver before you ride the roller coaster? Make your buddy sign a waiver before you take him fishing on your boat? I have been told by a lawyer one time privately that he doesn't even consider a liability waiver worth the paper it is written on, though that was a private conversation and I have no idea if there is any truth to that or not..... Isn't it time we decide for ourselves what risks we are willing to take to enjoy this one life we have to live and be done with these liability waivers?
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2023
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  2. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    All of the above.
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  3. LucyRay

    LucyRay Active Member

    I have my two horses boarded at a nearby facility. Everyone who boards there or takes lessons there must sign a liability waiver, as horses have inherent risk. An insurance carrier of course requires the waivers. I’m sure they never want to see a case. Waiver certainly doesn’t prevent an accident from happening. (Yes, I know horses are different than a submarine danger.). No one wants a bad thing to happen. I feel terrible about this sub accident. Is there a better place for me to post this? I’m seeing so many cold comments about the doomed Titan.
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  4. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Not a big deal, however, an accident involving a horse is understandable.

    A planned descent in a Submersible that the entity that owned the Submersible had not heeded concerns of viability and safety and engineering deficiencies by peer qualified Specialists, is not understandable.

    Now, if the owner of the horse knew the horse ate a bunch of locoweed or had a history of maniacal aggressive action and responses toward humans, but ignored the warning signs, that is not understandable, either.
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  5. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Nice horsey.....Hi Ho Silver, away...!!
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  6. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    Any case brought against the company should be thrown out. The craft was compromised after many trips. This would have happened later. You get's what you pay for. Making lawyers & relatives rich is not in my playbook.
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  7. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    This company needs to be shut for so many reasons and criminal charges. Claiming craft was safe at depths they never got close to testing, etc.
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  8. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Not exactly a Jacques Cousteau Moment, I'll give you that.

    Aye, Calypso I sing to your Spirit.....dadadadadadidadadi.....
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  9. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    Is is an ignorant post or the media is lying to us. This vehicle made several previous trips to the Titanic.
  10. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    It is my understanding, based upon limited sources, that the craft has been reported to make a trip twice before towards but never that deep. I would have no idea what the facts are in this because of limited sources and the company itself seems sleazy based upon their own videos and prior lawsuits. Perhaps, I should have used the word allegedly and focused on lawsuit cases and warnings before incident.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2023
  11. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    But I agree with the media lied or at least deceived the public with talk regarding search and rescue narrative.
  12. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    Doubtless, there are so many considerations that have escaped the public discourse, and should really be considered before people claim to understand the risks undertaken, both by OceanGate, and by their customers.

    Greatest, perhaps, is the lack of pressure testing representative of the intended depth of dive. Such testing can validate the ability of equipment to survive a dive to that level once. Such testing was skirted by OceanGate.

    Because variation in materials and fabrication are a reality and because the endurance limit depends upon the number of times the equipment is stressed, certifying equipment to much greater depths is always considered necessary to address the need for an appropriate margin of safety. To dive 4,000 meters, that sub should have been tested to a greater depth, yet the portholes alone were rated only for 1,300 meters depth.

    This wasn't an accident . . . it was calculated, willfull negligence.
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  13. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Rich owner. Rich clients. Rich are not as smart as we think they are.
    Guess that is why the world is so F-up in ways it should not be.
  14. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    I'll go so far as to ask, regarding safety, what proof do you look for every time you make a purchase?

    Commuting route?
    Hobby paint?
    Household appliance?
    Sporting equipment?
    Real estate?
    Etc . . .

    The buyers were lulled into complacency by a dishonest sales pitch.

    In my opinion, the only thing this incident has to do with wealth is . . . purely incidental.
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  15. GeneWright

    GeneWright Well-Known Member

    I'm not so sure, I see a trend. With this incident, the Titanic now has a 2-0 streak of killing rich people. The correlation is strong.
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  16. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    So is the correlation between people who are not rich and their inability to try.

    Care to compare statistics after the first successful visit?
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  17. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    :rolleyes: THIS IS NOT A COMPLICATED PUZZLE! I side with Gene.

    Poor people don't fly so less of them die in plane crashes. Poor people don't go on snowmobiles in CO, so less of them die on snowmobiles. Poor people don't go on things that float or submerge in the ocean so less of them die in the ocean. The more money a person has, the more things they can do and that expands their chancces of being in an accident of any kind. The equation for poor and rich only becomes closer to equal whith things like death by lighting - :oops: maybey not as the poor folks are not on golf courses as much! :D
  18. toughcoins

    toughcoins Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism

    I think you missed my point . . . that in all of the below examples I suspect that the poor and wealthy are equally aware / unaware of the risks they take on. That has less to do with one's finances than with their awareness of what can go wrong, or a lack of time to obtain and process the extra information, or their willingness to be seen asking at all.

    Produce - Who knows what herbicides are on their produce, or whether it is washed before purchase?
    Commuting route - Who knows the accident / fatality rates on roads / alternate routes available to them?
    Hobby paint - Who knows which chemicals are allowed in hobby paints that are not in household paints?
    Automobile - Who knows the crash test rating / rollover rating of their vehicle?
    Household appliance - Is your toaster oven / blender / lighting fixture UL Listed / CSA Certified? Is your extension cord rated for the total draw plugged into it?
    Airline - What is the safety rating of your preferred airline?
    Sporting equipment? Which brands, by sport, best protect athletes against injury?
    Real estate? Do you know if you have radon in your basement, if you are in a 100 year flood zone, if the deck, addition or garage on the home you bought was approved by the local building inspector?

    We all over look things, or make hurried decisions once in a while, and even sometimes dismiss the question as nitpicking or embarrassing to ask. I know . . . I've done it, and so have you all.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2023
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  19. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    You are correct. NO ONE CAN BE FULLY AWARE OF ANYTHING! Therefore ONLY the paranoid amoung us have the best chance of avoiding stuff. Fortunately, I'm normal and don't give a hoot! We are all going to die of something. With liberal democrat acceptance of criminals and open border policies, there are going to be more train derailments, more bridge collapses, more shootings, more forest arsen, more "product" tampoering, etc. Ignorant voters got what they deserve - the end of our country when all the "pussy" kids, taught (educated is not appropriate here) to hate America, run up to Canada again.:(
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  20. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Funny as any quip I’ve ever heard at an Irish Wake.

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