More of the same or a new political direction?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Moen1305, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    If you had to step out of your long-held personal opinions and party alliegances and look at this completely objectively.
    • How do you see the course of this country over the next two years especially in respect to foreign policy?
    • Will the Neocons lose more and more influence now that Rumsfeld is gone and will the Democratic leaders emerge as a force for change or obstructionism?

    As always: No name calling, labeling, yelling and shouting, attacking other posters. (If that's all you want to do, post your opinions in some other thread. Serious discussion please.)
    Thank you.
  2. Guardian

    Guardian New Member

    I presented your questions to the class for their consideration and comment. These are a few of the statements made and jotted down:

    Changes to foreign policy: There was a general feeling that the stock exchange was going to take a bath with the legislation and over sight that will be placed on industry and profits. So to make up for the loss of taxes and income to the budget, the congress will get buddy-buddy with such countries as China and Hugo Chavez to ward off their selling of American stock options and dumping of reserve notes that they now own.

    There will be enough political intervention that the generals and the pentagon will relinquish control of the military and it will be placed at the disposal of the United Nations, strictly as a peace keeping force. In other words the military will go global and start wearing their armored vests on their backs for protection.

    On other matters, we will see an increase in the activity of the National Gay Task force under the new leadership in power. Barney Franks will be their champion and legislation will be made to force acceptance of gay marriages across these united states.
    There will be new ‘black power’ with at least half dozen African Americans gaining political power. They were not talking about people like Al Sharpton, but persons like Cory Booker, Russell Simmons who is tied in with Hillery Clinton and Charles Schumer. There is Ron Dellums of Oakland who the Dems call ‘the father of coalition politics’ who will take a leading role in the next two years.

    Latino migration will be increased, rather than stopped. An open border policy will prevail as long as the Mexican who comes north settles and votes with the Democratic majority in more and more of the inner city of the West.

    Last but not least, your taxes will go up, not by increasing a tax rate, but by allowing the issues to become void rather than passing extensions. The one thing that could become a problem is the fact that the black democrats don’t like the mexican new comer and resents them coming here and taking jobs they feel could be theirs. Or at least that is the way it looks here on the west coast in our jails and on the streets. The Dems will keep the one nationality that will be the most favorable voters, regardless of which one it is. Now that is just for starters.
  3. KLJ

    KLJ Really Smart Guy

    I don't think we'll see more of the same, but we're not going to charge off in some new direction either. Most of what I see going on for the next 2 years is posturing for the 2008 presidential election.
  4. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    Well, I'm personally grateful that you put that class to work on something worthwhile. It will be interesting to see how many of your combined pronouncements actually come to fruition over the next two years. Some of your class observations did puzzle me a bit though.

    • The US stock Market isn't really in the realm of foreign policy.
    • Barney Franks will not lead the gay task force, Ted Haggard will "assume the position".
    • The only black leader that will emerge is Barack Obama.
    • No US border fense will ever be built because there isn't enough people in this country willing to do that kind of work.
    • Lastly, the Democrats big tent initiative lowers the standards to include former Republicans.

    Put that in your syllabus and smoke it CLASS! :eek:
  5. zaneman

    zaneman New Member

    I'm really not certain how things will change. I do worry however that neither congress, nor Bush will be able to get anything constructive done due to the inevatable disagreements.
  6. Stu Joe

    Stu Joe New Member

    I think this election was a backlash against corruption and the party in power more so than an embracing of the more liberal ideas. And, of course, the frustration with the war in Iraq and I am not sure how much change there will be at this point. I think we may end up on coast mode for the next 2 years with only limited things like minimum wage and a few other things making any headway for the Democrats.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in 2 years, though. The Democrats took control with pretty conservative opponents in many cases. What happens if Hillary (or another very left candidate) runs for President? A backlash and return to Republican control? Quite possibly. If the Democrats learn something and move the party towards the center, they could retain power for some time.
  7. Stu Joe

    Stu Joe New Member

    Sometimes our country is at its best when the government can't get anything done. Less chance for them to screw things up. ;)
  8. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    I think that you are probably mostly correct. But I'd add that both parties will go out of their way to make the other party look bad. This is probably a good time to disregard everything each party says about the other party. Many bills will be introduced just to make the other party have to either veto them or vote them down with no real intention of seeing them pass. It just gives them something to point to in 2008 and claim that the other party blocked legislation on this or that. Gridlock is the popular term I believe.

    After every election there is alway a pledge by both parties to work together. It is usually the first lie in a string of attempts to further both sides own interests and enhance their own political power. I think that one thing is for sure, Bush's power to push through any agenda items is completely gone. The Democrats can easily wait out his last two years in office in hopes of capturing the White House in 2008.

    I hate to see either party completely control the Senate, the House, and the Administration. I always leads the the kind of corruption we've experienced in the last 6 years. My ideal power sharing senario is a Democratic White House, Republicans with a slim majority in the Senate, and a Democraticly controlled House with a hefty majority. Only because Democrats are a more inclusive party with a broader cross-section of the population and a majority of the population. Republicans are a minority of the voting electorate made up of micro-interest groups that focus in on narrow issues such as abortion, taxes, religion, and welfare reform, and of course the broader category of wealth preservation through legislation. They deserve representation obviously but not as a majority of the voices in power. Democrats do not deserve all of the power either because there is more to consider than just social issues of fairness and equality for all. Democrats, although well intentioned, can't legislate away societal qualities such as laziness and criminal behavior. Sometimes the cold-hearted Republican approach is meritted to address some of these problems. The trick is to know when each approach is appropriate and not to always apply the same method to every problem.

    Well, that's what I think anyway.
  9. Danr

    Danr New Member

    This is the best thing that has happened for foriegn policy for 6 years. We have the opportunity to provide some oversight on the war (crimes) which include torture. The "neocon" approach has devasted America's image abroad and their loss of power can only be good.
  10. Guardian

    Guardian New Member

    This is an example of faulty Democratic thinking. Just what do you think is going to happen if and when Hugo Chavez decides to sell all of his oil to China. After all they are the ones who have been bank rolling this industry for him in hopes of control the Latin American oil economy. Of course you have another Dick Cheney in an old Democratic favorite McGovern who has his fingers in the South American oil. Major stock holder in Citgo, who is nothing more than Venezuela Oil. Every dime you pay Citgo, Hugo gets $.05, China gets $.03, George gets $.05 and the people of the country live off of the other $.15
    Then you have China who has been quietly but steadily buying up federal credits and currency from the fed. They have enough gathered to make a threat just a day ago about being recognized by the new administration or they would put all of it on the public market. But I guess you think none of this will have any effect on the stock market.
    Stop and consider that when all these crazies go after the oil industry in hope of getting one on the Republicans. They can hold their meetings and wave their arms, but at the end of the day they will have less and less respect and cooperation from the oil barons. Guess what that will do for gas prices and the economy. Again no effect on the stock market in your mind.
    No need to go outside of the party to find well qualified people for the position.
    While this may be the smart thing to have happen, it isn’t the normal way the party works. The major stumbling block in Mr. Obama’s way is that he isn’t another “Old Tom” and does too much thinking on his own. At the same time he is a major threat to such people as the Queen Clinton, and Mr. ....ahha,,, you know who I mean, the guy who can’t tell jokes. No with him in the way they would not be able to sit in black churches and put the BS they do without being shown for what they are. Mr. Obama will go down the drain when the plug is pulled by the good old boys in the party. Remember Chicago? The party has taken the African American for granted for too many years to change now. I can hear the Dem. now, yelling “Reverse Racism” and wringing their hands.
    I think you have missed the point, it will be the Mexican government who will be building the fence. They will need it to keep all the people from coming south to find work and earn a wage that they can feed their families with.
    Again the normal Democratic response to working together. With this type of attitude it’s now wonder that this country is in such bad shape. We don’t need to go looking for the enemy, as someone said ‘he is us”. The Big Tent had better be used to hold their circus and freak shows. Barnam and BAiley said it and it’s still true. “There is a Democrat born every minute”. Or something like that.
    Something I had started to believe, and that is Danr is supplying you with your material. Come on guy, you can do better than this! I hope!
  11. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    I think I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the class didn't help you with this little exposé. My response was mostly meant just to be humorus not as a litany of Republican faults and failings.
    I did ask at the onset that everyone refrain from labeling others (there is no such thing as a normal, usual, or typical Democratic OR Republican response) and try to step outside their normal biases and look at this question of future foreign policy changes from a subjective perspective.
    Again, my bullet points were meant as humor for your class to enjoy. I thought that was fairly obvious by the "Ted Haggart will "assume the position" comment. I thought that was really a funny pun and a funny mental picture as well.

    As far as the stock market goes, it is affected by countless events but just because some of them may have to do with foreign counties, doesn't make it a foreign policy issue. Your Venesuela and China examples are more related to a energy policy and fiscal policies. Not that either of these issues are taboo here, they are just not necessarily foreign policy concerns, but I digress. Talk about what you length if need be. :confused:
  12. Guardian

    Guardian New Member

    Look at this way, there are at least two of you in the Democratic party who cant tell jokes.

    * Lastly, the Democrats big tent initiative lowers the standards to include former Republicans.
    Yah! I think I see what you mean.

    Thank you! I'm glad I have your permissiion, but are you sure it's all right with the PooBah?
  13. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    You know, I seem to keep running into you in this forum. Not really you but that same old guy that just wants to argue and be "right" all of the time. Look, if all you want to hear is that you are right about EVERYTHING and your worldview is the only correct one on the planet then so be it. My ego isn't really tied up in this discussion, thread, forum or website. I recognize that people have their different opinions and biases not to mention their own set of personal problems that unfortunately make it into these debates.

    You like to lump "people like me" in with the likes of Danr but the truth you are far more like him that I could ever imagine. You're just at the other end of the political spectrum but you are the same person. I know that this falls on deaf ears because it is a symptom of the extreme personality to only listen to ones own opinion. As proof, consider the fact that when someone can only hear their own opinion it is personally unbearable to ever be wrong because it would create too much self-doubt. It is also the reason that they have to have the last word in every conversation by the way. I'm sure that you HAVEN'T heard this all before from the many people that have probably said the same thing to you throughout your life, but I take comfort in the fact that I'll never have to meet you or put up with you in any way I don't choose to.

    I have been around a long time and have learned to avoid people that seem to thrive in interpersonal turmoil because of the havoc that they reap on others around them. I've also learned that they either grow up over time or they spiral down into a world of misery and anger that they are responsible for creating. And to be perfectly honest, I don't care which road you take. I've spoken my last words on the topic so let us all hear yours and we'll move on to the thread's original topic.
  14. Guardian

    Guardian New Member

    Good enough, go back and read the first post I made in this thread. You will find absolutely no name calling, labeling or yelling and shouting of any kind. It was taken from notes made in class from discussion of this threads subject. These statements were not intended to change anyone's opinion or way of thinking. They were strictly what they were, statements made regarding this subject.

    Any ‘labels’ used were made to emphasize the true nature of the person or thing, and not as any kind of derogatory statement. i.e. ‘Uncle Tom’
    At no time was the use of ‘red’ lettering used by me to yell at anyone on this forum. The entire message was made in absolute seriousness.

    What did I get in return from you:
    This along with the excuse of ‘it was all a joke, and intended to make your class laugh’. Well, the joke is on you, as you were the one who said lets keep this a ‘serious discussion’, or don’t you remember?

    Maybe you have diagnosed your own problem:
    This may have been your best suggestion that has been made. I get no real joy besting someone who is just so far behind the times. I guess when a person gets up in years there is a reason they take their drivers licenses away from them, among other things. You know if you don’t use it, you loose it!
  15. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    Back to the issues I assume. Many political developments since the beginning of this thread. I'm anticipating the following:
    • Democratic political investigations.
    • Complete turn around in Bush admins. foreign policy.
    • Very little in the way of genuine legislation.
    • Several more resignations like rats leaving a sinking ship.
    • Followed by several more resignations.
    • Iraqi insurgents are enboldened by Bush's failures home and abroad.
    • Democrats spend the first half of the next two years taking aim at Bush and the second half pulling the trigger.

    Any other predictions?
  16. Guardian

    Guardian New Member

    Originally Posted by Moen1305
    As always: No name calling, labeling.........etc.

    I would like to predice that Moen will continue right on being Moen! Any takers?
  17. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Not Republican!

    Why don't you just shut the F**k up and move on? No one is interested in your take on me. Believe me, No one! You drive more good people with real contributions out of this forum than Danr ever could have. You are what drove most of us away from this forum in the first place. Just go away! You are not wanted. Just ask the group if you think it is just my opinion.
  18. Danr

    Danr New Member

    calm down moen, you have done some uncool sh*t here yourself. we are 1 big disfunctional family.
  19. Guardian

    Guardian New Member

    You start out by posting this:
    Then you follow it with this:
    Along the way you insult Danr:
    By looking down your nose at someone that at least has the guts to call them like he sees them, and isn't afraid of anyones oppinion. This in itself makes Danr, twice the man you seem to think you are, or would like to be. Such is not the case.

    So now either settle down or go post in another topic that has looser rules than those set forward in the very first thread. Please refer to No. 1 thread for guidance.
  20. Guardian

    Guardian New Member

    Just a little reminder, that when I started on this forum you weren't even a member, so go ahead and name one person that I drove away from this site!

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