President Pardons Three Accused of War Crimes

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mopar Dude, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    Yesterday the President pardoned three soldiers whose young lives have long been embroiled in war crimes accusations. These young men had served honorably lending me to believe the accusations were more political in nature than true war crimes. As a former soldier, I have had interest in these young men’s fortunes.

    Americans by and large are world leaders when it comes to armchair quarterbacking. We consume what we hear from our own selection of news and draw our own conclusions based on our personal biases.

    These young men’s judgements were initially born of the mindset drawn from the waterboarding stories that were so prevalent a decade ago. It is far too easy for us to sit in the comfort of our easy chairs and draw judgment on actions we feel are not appropriate..... Fact is, to the average American that has not placed themselves in harms way, there is no perspective unless you have faced the enemy on his ground. War is unspeakably brutal and you do what you must to keep yourself and your brothers in arms alive.

    Say what you will. These young men served honorably and our President did the right thing restoring honor to their young lives. Spin that.
    CoinBlazer and JohnHamilton like this.
  2. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    Two of these young men who you say "served honorably" were in fact convicted of war crimes. The other was credibly accused, and should have faced a court and had a chance to clear his name, if he is innocent.

    The Pentagon opposed the pardons. There is a clear practical reason for this. If the US is seen as willing to condone war crimes, it harms its ability to present itself as upholding a high ethical standard in its military actions. It shows itself willing to come down to the level of rogue states and lawless organizations like al-Qaeda and Daesh.

    JoeNation likes this.
  3. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Active Member

    "War Crime"

    You are watching a motorcycle with guys in foreign garb riding toward you. You ask them to slow down or halt, but they keep coming. They don’t stop; so, you end up shooting them. There is no way to know if they have suicide bombs on them on not, but you are supposed to wait until they are right up on you.

    If they detonate what they have, you are dead or maimed for life. What you are going to do, Mr. Progressive?
    Are you obliged to lay down life and limb because some desk bound general in Washington, who got his job by playing the PC liberal cards, says you have to make nice with terrorists who don’t observe any of the Geneva Convention rules?

    Before you start condemning soldiers as “war criminals,” you need to think about who is laying their lives on the line to keep you safe. You need to look at each of these cases in some detail before you start throwing the “war criminal” label around.

    Are there bad soldiers who deserve to go to jail or even be put to death? Yes, but you need to examine more than the liberal news headlines, which are looking to make Trump look bad any way they can.

    Many years ago, there was book, entitled, Military Justice Is to Justice What Military Music Is to Music.
    Most military trials are not held unless they are figure they are going to get a guilty verdict. It’s “guilty until you can prove yourself innocent,” unlike the civilian courts. Politics is often involved.
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  4. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    I think that the people appointed by the military to oversee the actions of members of the military are qualified to understand what constitutes war crimes. You may disagree, and think that a conniving, dishonest, self-serving draft dodger is capable of understanding these matters better. So be it.
  5. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Active Member

    I was eight years military. And in most cases, military justice is swift and stern. I had occasion to be involved with the military justice system. I was called when one of my new guys was in our German hosts city drunk and quite belligerent. I had a car and went to pick him up. I arrived just ahead of the MP's. I loaded the young man up in my car and proceeded to try to speak to the MP's on his behalf when he broke out into another drunken tirade. He was immediately handcuffed and my car was then inspected. The kid had put a small chunk of hashish in my glove box. It was my car so I was then arrested. Everything came true in the military court system and I was completely exonerated, though I never had the opportunity to whoop that kids arse for causing me so much trouble..... My point is simply this... Military judges and juries are as human as you or I. They are fallible. All humans are. But here's the undeniable fact. When you place yourself in harms way, decisions are truly life and death. The average American cannot begin to fathom just exactly what that means. You can train for years, but until that motorcycle is barreling at you in a hot unfriendly zone... Which choice would you make?
    JohnHamilton likes this.
  6. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    Soldiers on the ground during that incident tell a different story than Lorance.

    JoeNation likes this.
  7. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    The Secretary of the Navy has resigned/been fired. From his letter to Trump:

    He must be a never-Trumper.
    JoeNation likes this.

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