Religion of Love

I could go on forever, for it is happening on a daily basis. Mind you most of it is supported by Saudi Sunni dollars but it seems as if the Islamic world thinks it is ok. If American troops were doing this then they would be put on trial and people would be protesting in the streets for a new government.

You do not need to go on, my questions were clear, why is the international community, and the security counsel and USA help the Sudanese Christians back in 2007 / 2008 as per the videos you posted?

As I said earlier Israel is a special case, how many Palestinians were killed during the same period, how many are in Jail, how many are living in refugee camps for the past 30 years?, how many of them are treated as second class citizens in there own country?

and they were happy because of 9/11, innocent people died that day because of terrorist attacks by the same militias that USA helped to create to fight the soviets, this is unfortunate and not appropriate thing to be celebrated, but I can not blame the Palestinians because USA is the Major backer of Israeli actions.

So please stop focusing on the same points of terrorist groups and crazy dictator regimes and see the bigger picture, as I can also get you some articles and pictures about Christians and others killing Muslims, it never ends.

I know that the islamic world would never accept Israel for they can not tolerate a non muslim nation in the middle east just as they can not tolerate a non-muslim nation in any part of the world once they have the demographic advantage. This is why Europe is doomed. As for the United States its citizens have always poured out money to people of all backgrounds who are in need. As for the United States most of the UN aid money for decades has mainly came from the United States. As for the United States government military not getting involved to help non-muslims, lets face it..starting with Clinton, then Bush and now Obama the United States White House follows Saudi Arabian foriegn policy. We go were the it fits the Royal Sunni agenda. Now you may ask why then does the US still support Israel and the answer is that as long as Saudi Arabia feels threaten by Iran and its Shia poxy armies/terrorist groups in the middle east then Israel will remain. Now as far as religion goes I do not have a dog in this fight but it is a shame of the needless death and the restriction of free thought that is happening around the globe and it most likely will end when only Isalm remains with a Sunni-Shia nuclear war for the Shia do not have the numbers to fight the Sunni in a conventional war and unless both sides change their mindset then the day of the mushroom clouds and chemical bombs will come.

you are correct, 98% of Muslims do not accept Israel, but that does not mean that they will go to war to take Israel out.
Also, I know that there are some Jewish groups that think that the State of Israel should not exist, what do you think about this matter?.

A little bit of history, who started World War 1 and 2?, which countries has nuclear weapons?, which country actually used a nuclear weapon?, which country was built on the dead bodies of natives?, do you remember the Great British Empire?, Vietnam war?, etc etc.

And who elects the American government, which as per your argument is a puppet for the Saudis?

I am not here to say Muslims are great and non Muslims are killers, we are all humans and we need to live together in peace.

It is the kind of the attitude that you have is feeding the terrorists and extremists, attitude of "if you are not with us then you are against us" just does not work in real life, people are allowed to have differences in opinions if they are not harming others.

No No
I am giving some examples of wars not started by Muslims, we do study world history here , and Have TV's and watch documentaries

Actually, the Muslims may will have started WWI. I am sure you could read it that they did not, but it is at least debatable.

That is not the point, the point is you "or the op" should look at the big picture, are Muslims trying to kill all non Muslims to take over the world?

There are some Islamic terrorist groups, and some crazy rulers of some Islamic countries, but it is the same thing with all other religions.

Nairobi, Kenya (CNN) -- Explosions targeting two churches in Kenya near the Somali border killed at least 17 people, the Red Cross said, in the latest spate of attacks on the East African nation.
The blasts wounded at least 40 others, the Red Cross said. Regional deputy police chief Philip Ndolo also confirmed the injuries, saying "about a dozen" were critically wounded.
A Catholic church and the African Inland Church were both attacked by people wearing balaclavas and bearing guns and grenades, Ndolo said. The attacks took place about 10 a.m. local time.
Violence have escalated since Kenyan forces invaded neighboring Somalia last year to battle Islamist militant group al-Shabaab, which it blamed for kidnappings of foreigners in the nation.
When Kenya pursued the militants, the terror group threatened retaliatory attacks,

Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29
2012.07.02 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - A Shahid suicide bomber detonates near the entrance of a university, killing seven students and staff.
2012.07.01 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Nine Christian construction workers have their throats cut by Islamists in a 'gruesome' killing.
2012.07.01 (Garissa, Kenya) - Muslims throw grenades into two churches and then shoot fleeing Christians. Some seventeen die in the massacre.

Again Andy, you are giving examples of terrorist acts by terrorist groups, can you give examples of criminal acts by common Muslims against non Muslim neighbors?

Try looking up what happened to these women just to find a couple of the many names;

Banaz Mahmod

Hina Saleem

Fadime Sahindal

Kifaya Husayn

Samia Sarwar

Hatin Surucu

So I guess honor killings are only done by terrorists also?

This is good, we are moving away from terrorism, just to be clear I will not defend the actions of these animals.
De Orc:
The punishment in Islam for unmarried sex is 100 lashes for each of the two parties, if you are married you would be stoned to death, so it is clear that Islam as a religion does not tolerate these actions, you can tell by the scale of the punishment!
It does not matter if they are raised in UK or what color the skin of the girl, if you claim to be a Muslim you have to act as one.

rlm's cents:
like I said above, the punishment of premarital sex is known, if the retarded families of the victims decide to commit another crime by killing there daughters / sisters then they should be punished.

Also, in Islam forced marriages are void, if the girl tell the minster "no" the marriage will not happen, now if the parents force the girl to say "Yes" that is a different story.

Also, whomever accuses a women of premarital sex or adultery without having proof is Damned by GOD, will get 80 lashes and his testimony will never be accepted again.

Good question, I am not talking about this specific case, I am telling you the general rule.
If a women is forced to have sex this is rape, which means the rapist is punished and the victim is not.

in this particular case, they would probably be considered as "fighting god and causing corruption", and punishment is as follows:

From the holy Quran (5:33)

"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment"

So far, honestly xyz, I'm not seeing a lot of love. You defend your faith with examples of violence, cruelty, and murder. You give examples of these punishments being meted out with a black-and-white mindset, with no provisions made for mitigating circumstances. Where is the love and compassion?

That is true HollysMom, I will not lie.
As the Americans say "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."
Compassion should be for the victims and not the criminals, if criminals are punished crime rates will fall dramatically.

some exceptions are there, if you steal to eat you will not be punished, if you drink alcohol in your home and your neighbor sees you he should advise you and not report you etc etc.

something old but you might find strange, back when there were slaves the punishment of slaves is half that of free people!, from what I have seen in American movies Slaves receive 10 times the punishment!

And 1400 years ago Islam strongly urged Muslims to free slaves.
can you say the same about your society?

So compassion is there in appropriate circumstances, if harsh punishment is needed then so be it.

American society didn't exist 1400 years ago. The United States of America outlawed slavery a "mere" 89 years after declaring its independence from Britain--for a country, that's record speed!

The whole idea of "reporting" or "advising" a neighbor over something like drinking alcohol, but the acceptance of honor killings and forced marriages kind of makes me go "hmmmm." And what about people falsely accused of convicted of crimes? Finally, since we're comparing penalties, how do penalties for women compare to those for men? Are they equal to, lesser than, or greater than? I'm asking, not to be argumentative, but to express my doubts about the "compassion" of which you speak.

(To xyz) :
First off, thank you for "representing", or "testifying" here xzy. It's interesting to here opinions from a confirmed Shite.


(To all) :
But, just to be clear, no one here can claim to be "the" representative of their belief or country. That's true for all of us, so be careful in the attributions you make towards groups.

What did clembo call it? ..."blanket statements?"...

Anyway, all our opinions here are just that, opinions. Those opinions are based on our beliefs, and beliefs are not necessarily facts. So if it sounds like someone is disrespecting your religion or beliefs, keep that in mind. They may or may not be dissing your beliefs, but it's only an individual's opinion and not a larger groups.