The hread where tomc answers the question.....

I didn't want to highjack another thread so I started a new one.

Here's the deal......tomc has been dodging a certain question for a couple of months but he has now promised to give us his answer as long as I would answer his question about Bush increasing the deficit.
Here goes:
First of all, I don't agree with your figures but that really doesn't matter in regard to my answer.
Clinton reduced the deficit by slashing decimating our military & national security, this point can't be disputed. Bush ran on the pledge to increase defense spending so it shouldn't have been a surprise when that happened. Then a little thing referred to as 9/11 happened and the world changed. With bi-partisan support in Washington and the entire country we went to war- that can be expensive as we found out. And before some of you who would re-write history jump in, both dems & repubs were in favor of the path we chose...a path chosen because of intelligence supplied by non-partisan sources in this country & abroad (and yes, WMD do exist. there are a couple of hundred thousand dead Kurds to prove it). Hindsigh being 20/20 & all, it wouldn't have mattered who was in the WH at the time 9/11 happened, based on the intelligence we had & popular sentiment war was inevitable.
Now that addresses the largest piece of Bush's spending. The rest of the money, you ask?
No doubt there were vast sums that were spent needlessly. Repubs & dems alike share the blame on stupid Washington spending, excessive pork, etc. Some of it is inexcusable, no doubt.
I say factor out the military/defense aspect out of the Bush deficit & judge his admin on what's left. Mistakes were made and the Repubs paid the price on election day.

Now, tomc, let's see if you can live up to your word. I answered your question as sincerely as I could...I only ask that you do the same.

Based on your belief that 9/11 was an inside job by the Bush adminsitration do you think KSM is innocent of the crimes for which he is accused, namely being the mastermind behind 9/11.
Yes or no, then why.
We await your response.

 

First...some truth about deficit numbers and the criminal Bush.

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/study-bush-tax-cuts-cost-more-twice-m

Listen peabrain..I don't dodge anything. I reciprocate the ignorance that is shown by you and other like minded lemmings who SELECTIVELY answer what they can spin. You fit in that group perfectly.
To answer your question though Adolf, the "little thing" called 911 was perpetuated by George and company. It fit his/their agenda to rally the citizens to get behind war by invading a country that posed no threat to us. In case your repainting of history excludes this, remember, Iraq had NOTHING....NOTHING....that is NOTHING...AT ALL..ZERO...ZIP....NADA..to do with 911. But the Dick, his puppet, after facilitating 911, if not directly causing it, sang doom and gloom scare chants, based on false intelligence. Manufactured intelligence. Sold it to us and pushed for invasion of the oil rich country. Price was NO OBJECT. Deficits?? We didn't need to worry about a silly little thing called deficits, because this was a necessary war (as told to us by the liar in chief at the time). So that part of the deficit, he and his administration CREATED (literally) it for their immediate benefits. They purposefully created it...they own it. Intentionally created. Period.
and NO....WMD's DIDN'T EXIST! The support that was bi-partisan was generated by the liars and thieves themselves in that they were effectively backed into a corner, again based on LIES. WMD's not found. Not there. All made up bull. All by design. End of story. War was inevitable because the gangsters were determined to go to war and to sell the American on going to war. That's where 911 came in and it fit very nicely.
You ommitted the tax cuts for the rich as another large contributing factor to the deficit. The war mongers got their war, so now time to "cash in" via tax cuts for the wealthy.
Now to conclusively answer your question. Is KSM innocent of the crimes he is accused of committing? Probably...but we will never really know because the source of information is well corrupted. Was he the mastermind? Again..corrupted information source. I'm sure they've made it look as he is such, and he likely played a part
of the master plan. Him being the sole mastermind?? Not likely. What's more likely is KSM was either a part of the CIA led fable, or was allowed to go ahead with "his plan" while being carefully guided and sponsored by ours truely. So...in conclusion (get ready to cut and paste Davey), Whether or not KSM is guilty of being the sole mastermind is questionable at best. He may indeed be a participant. We'll probably never know though. The government doesn't like to be incriminated by such a 'would be' public spectacle running their mouth in any public way. So of course, we'll have to just take the (our) criminal's word for it all. IF he was involved in any part of 911...he should be fried. I personally would like to have him name names before he goes, but, not likely.
Guilty? Possibly.
Sole mastermind? Hell no!
That direct enough Mr. Fox spinster?

 

So, is KSM innocent or not?

 

Innocent of what? As far as I can tell, currently there are no official charges against him. He has been charged a couple of times in the past with various things from war crimes to murder to terrorism to support for terrorism to hijacking and probably other things. But, I do believe that all those are currently dropped and he is currently not charged with anything as they await a decision on where he will be charged and with what...military or civilian court, etc.

 

Well that would be for a trial to decide, would it not? If he's guilty, it should be easy enough to prove it, wouldn't it? I'm all for dropping the dude in the bottom of a deep, fiery pit if he had ANYTHING to do with the event. Same as I'd want other "participants" right there next to him if they were complicit in ANY way.

 

Kinda like not being able to find anything on the FBI's wanted list for having had ANYTHING to do with 911. We just have the war profiteers accepted propaganda. Kinda tough to prove somebody else did it when the ones presenting the allegations had thei hands in the till too. Makes it tough to allow information to leak out, as might happen in say, a trial. Classified information and all that jazz to protect the guilty. But so long as the lemming citizens allow it because they're too caught up in "capitalism" and American Idol, it'll continue to be this way until the highest moral authority intervenes, which would have to be soon IMHO.

 

Both Bush & KSM can't be the masterminds behind 9/11, can they?
I just want tomc to answer honestly, as he promised to do- is KSM guilty or innocent of the charges that he is the mastermind behind 9/11?

 

I haven't been privy to the evidence genius. I realize your side of the aisle just alledges, tortures, and is sole judge, jury, and executioner, but I tend to like to see evidence of guilt before casting judgement. Maybe you have some crystal ball you and your Fox watchers stare into to obtain guilt or innocence. The perpetraitors of 911 deserve nothing less than full, complete, punishment, WHOMEVER they may be.
I answered your question spinny.

 

You didn't answer the question you just side-stepped it. C'mon, you said you would answer, so answer.

 

If I think a pertinent question to everyone is ....if you were on a jury and heard actual charges and saw actual evidence presented in a court of law, would you then make up your mind. Or have you made it up already? One way or the other.

I would lean toward thinking he is guilty. But, without a trial and evidence - hell, without even official charges, I can't say that I can make a proclimation with certainty. Can anyone else?

 

I answered. Read. Not spin.

 

My point exactly. Davey is for the Bush/Cheney torture era through the abolishing of Habeas corpus. (you know, seeking relief from UNLAWFUL imprisonment and things like that). Davey is also pro rich, pro republican, pro corporate. Not suprisingly, he is against the LAW of health care as well. Go figure.

 

I guess I missed it in all the other garbage you posted so help me out. If Bush is the culprit behind 9/11, based on your evidence and as you have said numerous times, does that mean KSM is innocent? Are you capable of giving a yes or no answer to this simple question? I'm betting not.

 

Stu, there's actually a history behind this. tomc has been quite adament that the Bush administration was behind 9/11 (heck, he has even cited Tommy Chong, Paris Hilton & Ryan Seacreast as his expert witnesses). My question to him was simple- If Bush is behind 9/11 as he claims, what about KSM- the terrorist who has been arrested & widley reported to be the mastermind? With all the "research" he has done & all the (questionable) websites he has lonked to, how does he reconcile this? If, in fact, Bush is behind the 9/11 bombing, why wouldn't he be loudly advocating for the release of KSM? Actually, I believe the hole that this quandry opens & the inability to reconcile it with the rest of his conspiracy deluesion, blows the whole argument wide open.
And before he lays it off into the lap of the courts, remember, he has already passed judgement on Bush's guilt.

 

I could be wrong but I think Tom did answer your question in his first response. It sounded like he believes that KSM was a mercenary hired by the CIA which would make him complicit yet still allow the Bush administration to retain the mastermind status. He also stated that Iraq never had WMD's. I guess he thinks all the kurds died of natural causes.

 

You're correct up until the part where you said I said NEVER. Fact is, I NEVER said there weren't WMD's at some point prior. Hell, we sold them to him! (I guess Rummy made a couple of portfolio additions after that sale). They did NOT have WMD's at or near the time the Bush/Rummy klan claimed that they had them. Remember all those neat satellite pictures of "mobile weapons labs" Colon Powell proudly advertised for the world? I'll give ya a hint..they weren't mobile anything. But the public swallowed it anyway.

 

Davey, Davey, Davey... This is gettin' almost humerous, this 're-routing' of the words I use and your spinning to trying to reform your own version of reality. If you represent the "thinking" people on the right, well, the dems majoritygot nothing to worry about for awhile.
See Davey...that's why it's called a CONSPIRACY!! Two or more people involved in an attempt ti commit a crime!! Bush was the puppet, and the puppeteer for as well. KSM...IF guilty...was assisted directly or indirectly by the war klan. Wouldn't surprise me, and we'll not know for sure until 30 years from now probably, if KSM was some faction of the CIA, or some other "off the books" compartmentalized offshoot of the Dick and company. Oh and yes it would be nice to actually have some proof of KSM's guilt other than the elite killing crowd. You know, something the would hold up in court, something constitutional. I know Georgey likes to use it as toilet paper, but, some do still hold value in its' preservation, aside from the republican societal serial rapists.
I can reconcile everything just fine. You are the one with the monolithic, unidimensional thought patterns.
Concerning Bush's guilt of criminal conspiracy at some level...yes..I indeed have already passed judgement on that aspect. Congratulations. You can interpret english on occasion.