Todays Health Care Objectives.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by mralexanderb, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. mralexanderb

    mralexanderb FREEDOM FIGHTER

    Health-care bill needs major improvement to be worth passing
    By Governor Howard Dean, M.D. for the Washington Post - December 17, 2009

    If I were a senator, I would not vote for the current health-care bill. Any measure that expands private insurers' monopoly over health care and transfers millions of taxpayer dollars to private corporations is not real health-care reform. Real reform would insert competition into insurance markets, force insurers to cut unnecessary administrative expenses and spend health-care dollars caring for people. Real reform would significantly lower costs, improve the delivery of health care and give all Americans a meaningful choice of coverage. The current Senate bill accomplishes none of these.

    Real health-care reform is supposed to eliminate discrimination based on preexisting conditions. But the legislation allows insurance companies to charge older Americans up to three times as much as younger Americans, pricing them out of coverage. The bill was supposed to give Americans choices about what kind of system they wanted to enroll in. Instead, it fines Americans if they do not sign up with an insurance company, which may take up to 30 percent of your premium dollars and spend it on CEO salaries -- in the range of $20 million a year -- and on return on equity for the company's shareholders. Few Americans will see any benefit until 2014, by which time premiums are likely to have doubled. In short, the winners in this bill are insurance companies; the American taxpayer is about to be fleeced with a bailout in a situation that dwarfs even what happened at AIG.

    From the very beginning of this debate, progressives have argued that a public option or a Medicare buy-in would restore competition and hold the private health insurance industry accountable. Progressives understood that a public plan would give Americans real choices about what kind of system they wanted to be in and how they wanted to spend their money. Yet Washington has decided, once again, that the American people cannot be trusted to choose for themselves. Your money goes to insurers, whether or not you want it to.

    To be clear, I'm not giving up on health-care reform. The legislation does have some good points, such as expanding Medicaid and permanently increasing the federal government's contribution to it. It invests critical dollars in public health, wellness and prevention programs; extends the life of the Medicare trust fund; and allows young Americans to stay on their parents' health-care plans until they turn 27. Small businesses struggling with rising health-care costs will receive a tax credit, and primary-care physicians will see increases in their Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement rates.

    Improvements can still be made in the Senate, and I hope that Senate Democrats will work on this bill as it moves to conference. If lawmakers are interested in ensuring that government affordability credits are spent on health-care benefits rather than insurers' salaries, they need to require state-based exchanges, which act as prudent purchasers and select only the most efficient insurers. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) offered this amendment during the Finance Committee markup, and Democrats should include it in the final legislation. A stripped-down version of the current bill that included these provisions would be worth passing.

    In Washington, when major bills near final passage, an inside-the-Beltway mentality takes hold. Any bill becomes a victory. Clear thinking is thrown out the window for political calculus. In the heat of battle, decisions are being made that set an irreversible course for how future health reform is done. The result is legislation that has been crafted to get votes, not to reform health care.

    I have worked for health-care reform all my political life. In my home state of Vermont we have accomplished universal health care for children under 18 and real insurance reform -- which not only bans discrimination against preexisting conditions but also prevents insurers from charging outrageous sums for policies as a way of keeping out high-risk people.

    I know health reform when I see it, and there isn't much left in the Senate bill. I reluctantly conclude that, as it stands, this bill would do more harm than good to the future of America.
    Insiders attack Governor Dean because they are afraid of him and the power we represent. Now is the time to remind them why and back him up with the resources to lead the fight for real reform.

    Look guys, the insurance industry is the enemy of the people, unless you work for them, or take money from them. Politicians must shun the bribes from them and get control of health costs. One day, when you get very sick, you will have to spend ALL your money to stay alive. Then what becomes of your quality of life? Your family? Most bankruptcies are due to medical expenses. What happens if more than one of your family gets sick? We all lose with the insurance companies in the end. Think about it.
  2. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    PASS IT IN ANY FORM. Then fix it..otherwise no bill will ever pass at all. The corporatists with assistance from the right will see to that. Pass it. Then let the republicans stand alone in against it in 2010. It'll be much easier for the braindead public to see who's fighting it the hardest. Then the dems amend it as needed, and keep the republicans out of office for some time to come. Killing the bill is the right's best shot at future elections, which of course they have already figured out. Right now they can say, hey, it wasn't all us republicans, see..THE DEMS DID IT TOO!!. Where have we heard that before? They can also use the excuse that it's a bad bill, muddy....socialist, etc,etc. so long as it hasn't passed yet. Afterwards...even more folks will hate them when they try to amend it to their criminal liking. PASSING ANY TYPE OF HEALTH REFORM BILL EFFECTIVELY NUKES THE RIGHT, which is ALWAYS the best possible outcome for the majority of good people.
  3. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    Look guys, the insurance industry is the enemy of the people, unless you work for them, or take money from them. Politicians must shun the bribes from them and get control of health costs. One day, when you get very sick, you will have to spend ALL your money to stay alive. Then what becomes of your quality of life? Your family? Most bankruptcies are due to medical expenses. What happens if more than one of your family gets sick? We all lose with the insurance companies in the end. Think about it.[/QUOTE]

    Forgot a few points...
    The republicans are AGAINST the bill, no matter what. That ought to tell you something right there. Since when has the right EVER been on the side of lower income folks? How often are they on the corporate elite side? OFTEN to more OFTEN to ALWAYS. Ding, ding, ding!!! It's really no more complicated than that. I agree the details are very complex...but figuring out what side of the issue to be on isn't. Just watch the right yak and then you pick the opposite. Start with that premise and you'll be correct 90% of the time. The other 10% doesn't even exist, so you're good;)
  4. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    I thought Walmart was the enemy of the people. Or was it Big Business. Or was it the Oil Companies. Or was it The Rich People. Or the Banks. Or maybe Drug Companies.

    BTW: I see no way the insurance and drug companies are not going to get rich off of this. Otherwise why would they contribute so much money to the President and other majority party folks. Kind of like the banking industry. They have to be licking their lips over mandatory insurance and a government (errrr, excuse me, Public...) option where they can use their money to influence the government officials and regulations for years to come.

    I am not saying we don't need health care regulation and reform (for example the pre-existing condition thing should have been regulated out long ago...) just that one needs to be realistic about all the big money that is involved and what (and who) it is buying.

    Of course, I guess none of that thinking applies to those who believe we can just keep using unlimited credit to give everyone everything. Or those that believe the time to worry about the deficit is after we have spent a few more trillion dollars on healthcare, more bailouts, sending more troops to Afghanistan, etc.
  5. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    Those who are against just passing any old bill just so Mmm Mmm Mmm BO can say he has finally kept a campaign promise aren't necessarily against healthcare reform- they just want to know WHAT the legislation is, HOW it's going to be paid for & IF it will do more good than harm. These folks are treating our tax money just like we all would treat our own money (novel idea, huh?). Even you should be skeptical when the libs are trying to push a bill through in the middle of the night before anyone has a chance to read it. Or when Rahm Emanuel is screaming at lefties to "pass anything".
    If/when healthcare reform is passed there will be no turning back. Mmm Mmm Mmm BO will create the largest bureacracy in the history of the world with one swing of his pen. We should get this right, don't you think?
  6. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    This is simply another instance of Mmm Mmm Mmm BO's limited real world experience coming into play. He has no concept of finances, budgets, saving, etc. If you will remember during the campaign, he advocated the taking on of students loans (taking on the debt instead of working & paying as you go) and he told those stories about the struggles he & Mrs BO went through up until recently...apparently having Ivy League law degrees, serving on corporate boards & penning books doesn't provide enough income for some!
  7. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    It's not like Bush and the Republican Congress were a bunch of penny pinchers. All of them have been pigs at the trough. But, that is because that is what the people want. Give us more, more. Damn the future. Full steam ahead.
  8. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    So, remind me what Bush has to do with this issue? Remember, he has been out of office for nearly a year & the "Republican Congress" has been out of power even longer!
  9. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    You quoted my remark on the deficit in your reply and then commented on finances and budget. Bush and his Congress had a bit to do with both. As do Obama and his.
  10. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    Sorry..when you used language like "those who believe" "more bailouts", etc I you were referring to current & future issues not former presidents or past congresses.
  11. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    Nope. Sorry. I think both current and recent versions your team and Tom's team fall into that "pigs at the trough" group. And a look at the deficit numbers from the last decade bears that out. Health care is just the spending issue of the moment. Just like the wars continue to be and the bailouts were and will be again.
  12. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    Hey man..I don't have a team. I walk alone...proudly..and please don't group me in with Davey. I'd like to think I can actually be coherent on occasion.
  13. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    All would fall under the heading of "Corporate America" my good man. They are all woven neatly together like a spreading cancer in the body, and the cancer is about to completely destroy any remaining living tissue. One supports the other while they build more cancer cells. See...what we need is a virus. One that quietly invades the elite's very core...yes sir, a cash hungry, stock option dependent, big business consuming, corporate infesting virus. Maybe we can reprogram Bernie Madoff's DNA and reinsert him back into the corporate collective criminal blood supply and destroy them from the inside out (kinda like the Borg on Star Trek). Then take their oil, drugs, and cash and put them all on some vacant part of a very cold, cold, continent..together with all of the infected corporatists...encapsulate them from the outside world and make them take their drugs, drink their oil, and take turns bending one another over like they do to the masses in the current world that they endlessly rape. Then they'll have what they've always wanted...a place where there are only rich people and other people like themselves...all self important legends in their own minds, with all the drugs and cash they could ever want. They could burn their oil, ignited by their certificates of stock, or maybe pages of their fraudulant books, to keep them warm. Then when they've all killed each other off (in about two weeks), we nuke the leftover continent and seal the remains in concrete.. because somehow, I think the rest of us could figure out a way to continue on without them and their limitless bounds of greed and exploitation. The world would then stand a chance of becoming a much better place to live and raise future generations. Oh yeah...and they have to take Sean and Rush, numbnuts (I mean George) and the Shotgun Dick along with them (along with one dozen donuts for Sean to hand out to his constituents and a box of cigars for Rush to blow smoke in Cheney's face, and also one shotgun for Darth to return fire with (which he accidentally hits a bird with after discharging...which of course, in turn, then gives Dick a woody as the reality of getting to kill something totally defenseless excites his perverted brain). Lastly, they all have to tatoo "Fox news. Fair and imbalanced" on their foreheads.
    Yes we need healthcare reform! The right doesn't want it so it MUST be done.
  14. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    I personally would not have any problem with the health care reform (or many other issues) if only they were important enough to pay for.

    Everyone has to have health care. Fine. Cancel the Afghanistan surge. Now. Shut down both wars. Now. Close down overseas bases. Now. End foreign aid. Now. Don't spend the leftover bailout money on anything else. Ever. Don't re-spend the paid back bailout money. Ever. Cut non-essential programs. Now. Reduce Congress pay and benefits. Now. Reduce Presidential pay and benefits. Now. Take away their special health care. Now. Raise taxes. Now. Whatever it takes if they think it is that important.

    If it is so important, it should be important enough to pay for. Period.

    In fact, that sounds like a good signature.
  15. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    Very reasonable point of view my republican friend, but the main stopper there is that we're already broke. Lotsa money's just been printed up and thrown at the core of the problem versus trying to fix it. It's past the point of no return economically, and the mass of people are either simply too ignorant or too stupid to realize it..has been for some time now. Rome's burnin' brother...flames just are not visible to all yet. Too late to fix. Grab a calculator and plug in some numbers. Capitalism has gone wild and peed on us all. We ain't gonna be able to spend or bomb our way out of this one. God's hand will have to intervene and press reset.
  16. vess1

    vess1 "Birds of a feather...."


    Did you even read the first couple paragraphs of the OP, by Howard Dean, Democrat????

    "If I were a senator, I would not vote for the current health-care bill. Any measure that expands private insurers' monopoly over health care and transfers millions of taxpayer dollars to private corporations is not real health-care reform."

    Isn't that the exact opposite of what you think they're doing!? LOL!!!!!!!

    The dems can't even rally their own around this. Don't you think it warrants a little more investigation than blatantly yelling about passing something that may be the exact opposite of what you think it is?? Instead of blind political affiliation, blindly following a party that is in disarray over it themselves!? You've proven your opinion meaningless.... once again.
  17. vess1

    vess1 "Birds of a feather...."

    Hey. Pssssst! There's a dem majority in the house and senate. Has been for a while now. The reason it hasn't passed is because the dems don't want it either. Get with the program!
  18. Stujoe

    Stujoe Well-Known Member

    I haven't voted for a single Republican in the last 5 years. And won't for the next 5 years at least, if ever.

    If that is true, then health-care won't matter either so no biggie if it passes. Might as well vote against it and just send everyone big fat checks to spend on whatever they want.

    Thing is, just 10 years ago, we were on a path where the deficit could have possibly been paid off by next year. Yes, 2010. It could still be done. It would just take longer.

    And just like on a personal can sacrifice and do without and dig oneself out of debt. Or one can damn the torpedoes, charge the credit cards to the max and go out in a blaze of glory until they take it all away and you end up worse off that if you had just tightened the belt and done without.

    I think we see where the last administration and congress and this administration and congress fall. Spend baby, spend.

    Thing is, they won;' feel the heat when it does fall. Do you think the politician will be hurting as much as the average or below average schmoe (or even the above average schmoe)? Not a chance. They all make obscene salary and most on both sides have plenty of net worth.
  19. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    The current reform offerings from the radical left aren't supported by the right, the few dems that are willing to think for themselves or the people, so why is it so important to Mmm Mmm Mmm BO, Nancy Pelosi and the rest of that bunch (and tomc) to pass it right now..pass something, pass anything? Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?
  20. tomcorona

    tomcorona Anti republican truther

    PSSST...60 votes. It's done. You were correct about the majority. Congratulations. Get with the program..rather..stay on the right and fade into obscurity.

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