Why Evangelicals disgust me.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by JoeNation, Jun 3, 2022.

  1. JoeNation
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    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    I generally don't give two sh!ts about one religion vs another religion. They're all pretty much different flavors of the same nonsense as far as I am concerned. But Evangelicals are some of the worst hypocrites alive and they even come in under Catholic child abuses and Al Queda fanatics. Here's why:

    White Evangelicals, This is Why People Are Through With You
    JANUARY 24, 2018 / JOHN PAVLOVITZ

    Dear White Evangelicals,

    I need to tell you something: People have had it with you.

    They’re done.

    They want nothing to do with you any longer, and here’s why:

    They see your hypocrisy, your inconsistency, your incredibly selective mercy, and your thinly veiled supremacy.

    For eight years they watched you relentlessly demonize a black President; a man faithfully married for 26 years; a doting father and husband without a hint of moral scandal or the slightest whiff of infidelity.

    They watched you deny his personal faith convictions, argue his birthplace, and assail his character—all without cause or evidence. They saw you brandish Scriptures to malign him and use the laziest of racial stereotypes in criticizing him.

    And through it all, White Evangelicals—you never once suggested that God placed him where he was,
    you never publicly offered prayers for him and his family,
    you never welcomed him to your Christian Universities,
    you never gave him the benefit of the doubt in any instance,
    you never spoke of offering him forgiveness or mercy,
    your evangelists never publicly thanked God for his leadership,
    your pastors never took to the pulpit to offer solidarity with him,
    you never made any effort to affirm his humanity or show the love of Jesus to him in any quantifiable measure.

    You violently opposed him at every single turn—without offering a single ounce of the grace you claim as the heart of your faith tradition. You jettisoned Jesus as you dispensed damnation on him.

    And yet you give carte blanche to a white Republican man so riddled with depravity, so littered with extramarital affairs, so unapologetically vile, with such a vast resume of moral filth—that the mind boggles.

    And the change in you is unmistakable. It has been an astonishing conversion to behold: a being born again.

    With him, you suddenly find religion.
    With him, you’re now willing to offer full absolution.
    With him, all is forgiven without repentance or admission.
    With him you’re suddenly able to see some invisible, deeply buried heart.
    With him, sin has become unimportant, compassion no longer a requirement.
    With him, you see only Providence.

    And White Evangelicals, all those people who have had it with you—they see it all clearly.

    They recognize the toxic source of your inconsistency.

    They see that pigmentation and party are your sole deities.
    They see that you aren’t interested in perpetuating the love of God or emulating the heart of Jesus.
    They see that you aren’t burdened to love the least, or to be agents of compassion, or to care for your Muslim, gay, African, female, or poor neighbors as yourself.
    They see that all you’re really interested in doing, is making a God in your own ivory image and demanding that the world bow down to it.
    They recognize this all about white, Republican Jesus—not dark-skinned Jesus of Nazareth.

    And I know you don’t realize it, but you’re digging your own grave in these days; the grave of your very faith tradition.

    Your willingness to align yourself with cruelty is a costly marriage. Yes, you’ve gained a Supreme Court seat, a few months with the Presidency as a mouthpiece, and the cheap high of temporary power—but you’ve lost a whole lot more.

    You’ve lost an audience with millions of wise, decent, good-hearted, faithful people with eyes to see this ugliness.
    You’ve lost any moral high ground or spiritual authority with a generation.
    You’ve lost any semblance of Christlikeness.
    You’ve lost the plot.
    And most of all you’ve lost your soul.

    I know it’s likely you’ll dismiss these words. The fact that you’ve even made your bed with such malevolence, shows how far gone you are and how insulated you are from the reality in front of you.

    But I had to at least try to reach you. It’s what Jesus would do.

    Maybe you need to read what he said again—if he still matters to you.
     
  2. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    There are worlds of hypocrisy in this one sentence alone.... But you guys will never see it.
     
  3. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    This is a lie. No way to gloss this over. A blatant, in your face lie.

    I have no idea who John Pavlovitz is, nor do I give a damn. But do not lump me in with his vile portrayal of God fearing men. I wouldn't piss on this man if he were on fire. I know the good that emanates from the Christian heart. And no, not all are perfect. We are sinners that recognize something greater than ourselves calls us to be beacons of good in this world. Piss on this piece of human puke.
     
  4. Robert Ransom
    Roflmao

    Robert Ransom Cautiously optomistic.

    upload_2022-6-3_14-0-47.png
    Another liberal, progressive socialist, a pastor fired from his mega-church and member of your ilk, JN.
    His twaddle begins with a poorly constructed title. This is followed with praise for a president and first lady who slowly encouraged disharmony and divisiveness within the fabric of our society.
    His slogans bore no fruit.
    https://archive.humanevents.com/2012/03/24/top-10-obama-campaign-slogans/
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-many-slogans/2012/07/10/gJQAf8UlaW_blog.html
    :p
     
  5. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    The rest of us are fed up with what the Evangelicals represent. We have only judged them by their actions, not their stated beliefs or who they fear. As an organization, they don't even live by the values they claim to believe in. Individuals are not the issue. No one person is the organization they choose to affiliate themselves with, but they are rightfully judged by what that organization stands for and the actions they take. You might choose to believe that the organization you belong to is above reproach but the rest of us are not going to take that on faith especially given what they actually do. Reality trumps faith in this instance.
     
  6. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    By definition, anyone that calls himself Christian is an evangelical. At its core, the meaning of the word is simply spreading the good news…..Being Christian does not define one’s political aspirations. In fact my little congregation sports all manner of gay, straight, conservative and liberal people. None of that matters. We worship together and that is what matters….. Now I don’t know who you are referring to with your comment “given what they actually do”. If you are declaring a war on God fearing men, then Joe, you need to take a very hard look in the mirror. Those that are governing this nation are among the darkest and most deceptive that have ever held office in this nation. Their agenda trumps anything and everything they state publicly and it is appalling to those of us that can see through the veil….. I know what my church organization does in my community. We feed the hungry. We care for neglected kids. We provide free sports facilities to the kids in our community….. I could go on. But Joe, do not disparage what you know nothing about. Particularly when those you laud are the darkest and most deceptive people our nation has ever known…. And do not declare war on good God fearing men. It will be a mistake of incalculable proportions.
     
    Profiler likes this.
  7. Robert Ransom
    Roflmao

    Robert Ransom Cautiously optomistic.

    Nothing but hogwash. No facts. Just your BS opinion. Typical troll.
     
  8. JoeNation
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    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    Well, if I'm wrong about Evangelicals broadly, or if you can't take my word for what I am claiming because I am an "outsider" and not one of you, then take the word of one of your own prominent members. I would be all too happy to know nothing about Evangelicals in America, but they are assaulting the Democracy I live in so it gets kind of hard to ignore them.

    The evangelical church faces a 'state of emergency' over the pandemic and politics, Andy Stanley says.

    Winning souls for Christ. Taking back America for God. Standing in the Gap.

    Anyone who has spent time among white evangelical Christians has heard some of those phrases. The evangelical subculture is filled with militaristic rhetoric that depicts conservative Christians trying to "take back America" for God from the secular forces of evil.

    But what happens when one of the nation's most famous evangelical leaders declares that "saving America is not the mission of the church?" When he says that loving people takes precedence over loving country? Or when he says that Christianity is not about winning, but "losing on purpose, with a purpose?"

    Andy Stanley, pastor of one of the nation's largest megachurches, is about to find out. This is part of the message he shares in his provocative new book, "Not In It To Win It: Why Choosing Sides Sidelines the Church." In the book, Stanley recounts what happened to him and his church when they confronted three recent challenges: the pandemic, the George Floyd protests and the 2020 presidential election.

    Stanley, who describes himself as "right-leaning politically," says some members left his church when he canceled in-person services during the height of the pandemic. Others accused him of embracing a "woke, left-wing Marxist agenda" when he talked about confronting racism One pastor told him on Twitter, "Sir, with all due respect, you're a false prophet from Satan's hell."

    This is nothing new for Stanley -- with prominence comes criticism. He is one of the most influential evangelical leaders in the US. Stanley is pastor of North Point Community Church in suburban Atlanta, a nondenominational evangelical congregation that draws more than 38,000 people to its Sunday services at eight locations in Georgia. He reaches an even larger audience with his books on leadership, YouTube sermons and podcasts, such as a recent venture with Adam Grant, the best-selling author and organizational psychologist.

    [​IMG]

    Some evangelical leaders have become involved in politics. Here Ralph Reed, Dr. Alveda King, Journey keyboardist Jonathan Cain, personal pastor to the president Paula White Cain and others pray on stage during a July 2020 campaign event for then-President Trump in Alpharetta, Georgia.

    In his book, Stanley says he's "embarrassed" by how some evangelical leaders have acted during the pandemic and in the aftermath of the the 2020 election. He claims they allowed the church to be divided over vaccines and the wearing of masks during Sunday services, twisted scripture to support political talking points and engaged in the "indiscriminate demonization" of entire groups.

    "The moment our love for or concern for country takes precedence over our love for people in our country we are off mission," Stanley writes. "When saving America diverts energy, focus and reputation away from saving Americans, we no longer qualify as the ekklesia [church]. We're merely political tools. A manipulated voting demographic. A photo op... We give up the moral and ethical high ground."
    Stanley recently talked to CNN from his church in Alpharetta, Georgia. The following interview was edited for brevity and clarity.

    Why did you write this book?
    I was so frustrated as I watched, primarily evangelical leaders, politicize their church. They limited their ability to reach people because they alienated half the people in America by politicizing their church. And by politicizing, I mean they came out as saying we're Christians, and we're Republicans, and we're Republicans because we're Christians. On the other side, I've been in churches, where they say, we're Democrats, and so the reason we're Democrats is because we're Christians.

    This is just crazy. That's evidence of a person who has draped their political views and their political party with scripture and with Jesus. And as a Christian, it should be the other way around.
    You also spoke out against racism during the George Floyd protests. Were people angry at that?
    There are people who said I'm slowly trying to lead the church to be more woke. Two or three people said, Andy, in that sermon, you called me a racist. No, I just said there's probably a little racism in all of us, including myself. We should examine our hearts and in the cultural moments like what happened with George Floyd. I think you pause and say, 'How does that make me feel?' If there wasn't something heartbreaking about that, regardless of what you think, politically or pro-police or anti-police, you got some work to do.
    [​IMG]



     
  9. Robert Ransom
    Roflmao

    Robert Ransom Cautiously optomistic.

    The answer is simple. He is a closet left leaning RINO.
     
  10. JoeNation
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    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    Now that you have your label, you can dismiss any and all criticisms. Sweet how that always works for you true believers.
     
  11. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I could just as easily turn that around and say that ultra left wing environmentalists are assaulting the Democracy that I live in.

    Now you began this thread as a direct assault on those of us that look up rather than left or right. You seem to have quite the knack for reaching deep into your bag of tricks and pulling out the worst in something that at its very core is a good thing. I could do the same. There are clear examples of extremists in every group and the very act of highlighting them only serves to embolden them. And that goes both ways.

    So I have a proposal to make. It’s a mighty big nation and I believe there is room for us all. If my schooling is clear in my head, the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence granted me life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness….. Me and many others like me find our pursuit of happiness in looking up….. I acknowledge that your pursuit of happiness is different than mine and I am alright with that. How bout you do the same?
     
  12. Robert Ransom
    Roflmao

    Robert Ransom Cautiously optomistic.

    A poor response by you, Joe. You Libs. and Demorats prevaricate endlessly. So typical of your ilk. November is only a few months away, so get ready to get clobbered. :D:p
     
  13. JoeNation
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    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    You have a point that I will acknowledge and I agree that we see different culprits as the cause of most of this country's ills. If you read the OP again, I didn't assail all people that have any belief. Although, as I said, they are pretty much just different flavors of the same nonsense in my opinion, I believe that people have the inalienable right to believe whatever they want no matter how far-fetched. I draw the line when those believers become political. You can't deny that Evangelicals are the single most politically active Christians in the country and that they are directly assailing anyone that has a belief they oppose. They are literally famous as militant Christians and use the language of aggression towards others. That should cause anyone to be suspicious of their motives.
     
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  14. Mopar Dude

    Mopar Dude Well-Known Member

    I pondered this response over the weekend and as much as it is, I accept it as softening of your position and I appreciate that. I want to propose a scenario. I know from my experience that our creator will speak to peoples hearts at different places in their lives. Now before you lay judgment to that comment, consider this. Say one of your fine sons comes home for Thanksgiving to announce he has given his life to Christ and plans to enter the seminary. Would you attempt to reason him out of it? I have seen exactly this happen, Joe. And I'll take it one step further. Let's say he sits at the Thanksgiving table and announces that he is gay...... Now, I know the answer to either scenario. These are our kids and we love them in spite of their choices. But does one choice favor the other in your mind? And is the delineation agenda motivated?..... You have said previously that you has a bad experience as a student at Catholic school and I can appreciate that this experience has tainted your view of the church. But there has to come a point in your heart that you have to realize that your bad experience does not paint an accurate portrait of what takes place in sanctuary's all across our nation. Just some food for thought.
     
    JoeNation likes this.
  15. JoeNation
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    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    Thanks for putting thought into your answer. A rare step in this forum.

    I have always told my boys that if they decide to be gay or if they decide to become a pastor or any other other choice short of murder, I am absolutely accepting of their lifestyle because I love them so much. My wife cannot accept them enlisting in the military, as she says, but she would accept their choice if it came down to it. I have actually encouraged them to think about the military as an option simply because they would all be officers. Good pay, secure job, opportunities that you wouldn't get as a civilian are all positives. So, we are far more flexible with our children than our own values would dictate. We never believed that we knew everything. We always told them what each religious denomination believes and let them make up their own minds. Gene will confirm that. The point is that although we were raised with a set of beliefs that were common when we were young, we never believed that we had all of the answers. I think many people never question what they were taught when in fact, a lot of what we were told should have been questioned. Why inflict the misinformation we were fed onto our kids?
     
    Mopar Dude likes this.
  16. JoeNation
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    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    I am not attacking Evangelicals as a religious belief. Whatever they want to believe is none of my business. It is only when they take their religious beliefs into the political realm that they arouse my ire. I haven't, if you'll notice, questioned one belief Evangelicals have. They can worship snakes for all I care. I do take issue with their Dominion beliefs because they see themselves as the "stewards of the Earth" and with God on their side, what aren't they capable of doing in His name? Hard to imagine.

    I also don't believe that Jesus is coming back. It was a one-time thing and even if these self-proclaimed "stewards of the Earth" want to believe this fairytale, I wouldn't pay them any attention except for the whole "we're in charge of the entire planet" ideal. That is about as frightening as any Islamic extremists' group as I have ever heard of.

    DOMINIONISM
    Dominionism is man’s attempt to occupy and subdue the world as God’s stewards of the earth. While we are called to occupy the world and spread the Good News of the gospel, “dominionists” believe it is our duty to vanquish evil before Jesus’ final return. This is man’s attempt to do what God alone can do–usher in permanent peace.

    Left wing dominionists often believe that Jesus can only return once man has vanquished injustice, poverty and economic inequality. Many believe Jesus cannot return until this is accomplished. Many left wing dominionists also subscribe to the beliefs of collective salvation, where all creation is ultimately saved because of their efforts.

    Right wing dominionists often believe man must conquer and subdue institutions like government, commerce and media to usher in Jesus’ return. Many believe in a Christian theocracy for government.

    Both sects of Dominionism are attempting to override biblical prophecy which states the world will grow increasingly more evil until Jesus returns to vanquish evil, condemn the wicked and establish His everlasting Kingdom.
     
  17. Robert Ransom
    Roflmao

    Robert Ransom Cautiously optomistic.

    You contradict yourself, Joe. First you say you do not, then you say you do. You seem to be driving into on-coming traffic. Are you offering rebuttal to their beliefs or only ranting? If you are, what...?
     
  18. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    Joe,

    You started this thread with this: "I generally don't give two sh!ts about one religion vs another religion. They're all pretty much different flavors of the same nonsense as far as I am concerned."

    Question:

    Do you believe in any "higher power." Is all worship of a "Religious Being, or God" simply
    nonsense to you? If one group of believers kills gays and another accepts them, do they both believe the same nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  19. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    @JoeNation

    I guess you MISSED THIS while you are moving.

    You started this thread with this: "I generally don't give two sh!ts about one religion vs another religion. They're all pretty much different flavors of the same nonsense as far as I am concerned."

    Question:

    Do you believe in any "higher power." Is all worship of a "Religious Being, or God" simply nonsense to you? If one group of believers kills gays and another accepts them, do they both believe the same nonsense?
     
    Robert Ransom likes this.
  20. What U ignore

    What U ignore Thread KILLER

    @JoeNation

    Where have you gone ducking Joe?

    Same old question:

    Do you believe in any "higher power." Is all worship of a "Religious Being, or God" simply nonsense to you? If one group of believers kills gays and another accepts them, do they both believe the same nonsense?

    I'm beginning to think that you possibly don't know the answer anymore. Perhaps getting beat down by by informed men has caused you to doubt whatever you believe. That is a good start.
     

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