I see how it works.......

Discussion in 'Politics' started by arizonaJack, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. JoeNation
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    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    You said nothing about blaming Clinton? Then I find it funny that you "like" Coiny's post for saying it which most of us would take as agreeing with the post.

    And you agreed!
     
  2. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    OK everybody, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

    Of course Clinton had a lot to do with the collapse. Do you not think his policies carried over into the Bush administration? His bad policies (especially the GLB and the Community Reinvestment Act) set in motion the inevitable collapse. I recall watching a program in 1995 or so where two financial wizards were discussing the CRA. One predicted a financial collapse within 10 years (it actually took 12 years) and the other claimed it would never happen. Well, it certainly DID happen and now all of us are paying the price of Clinton's policies.

    If you're saying that Clinton had nothing to do with the financial collapse, then you either don't know history, don't understand the GLB and (especially) the CRA or you simply are blinded by partisan smoke.
     
    2 people like this.
  3. JoeNation
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    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    So Bush handing out 2 enormous tax breaks to the wealthy, passing the unfunded Medicare Part D to buy the senior vote in 2004, and waging 2 wars off the books, and also pushing for greater expansion of home loans had absolutely nothing to do with the crash of 2008? I know these are inconvenient historical facts that you seem to be able to ignore but you can't ignore that it is a provable fact that the economy does better under Democrat Administrations.
     
  4. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    Well, Clinton certainly is partially to blame. Those who think that just because Clinton was out of office, he's free and clear of blame have a lot of fact-finding to do. I never said that Clinton was solely to blame, but he certainly kept the train steered in the wrong direction.

    The Real Deal

    So who is to blame? There’s plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn’t fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn’t do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility … with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here’s a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:
    • The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.
    • Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.
    • Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.
    • Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.
    • The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.
    • Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.
    • Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.
    • Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.
    • The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.
    • An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.
    • Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.
    The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/who-caused-the-economic-crisis/
     
    2 people like this.
  5. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    This is where you and I differ. I'm willing to call a spade a spade whereas you will stick to your partisan hackery to the end.

    Bush didn't do enough to reign in the financial problems created by Clinton. Had Bush pushed the "financial" reset button to pre-Clinton standards, we may have avoided the collapse. But, Bush didn't do that. Bush should have stopped the Clinton train wreck dead in its tracks and history has proven him wrong for not doing so. So, the American economy has paid the price of a president who set an impending disaster in motion and another who failed to stop it.
     
  6. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    Then how do you justify blaming Obama for the impacts of the worst recession in generations? We have high unemployment, we have a sluggish economy, we have depressed wages, and all the other aspects that go along with a deep recession. The Right-wing routinely puts the sole blame on the guy who inherited the mess Bush left him. It would seem to any sane human being that you want to have your cake and eat it too. In other words, Clinton's policies carried into Bush's terms but Bush's policies seem to have ended that cold November day Obama was elected.
    Certainly policies carry over somewhat to the next administration but while Clinton's policies seem to dominate the entire 8 years of Bush's terms, Bush's policies seem to have ended sometime before he left office. It just boggles my mind that people can actually indulge in that kind of creative logic. What's your secret? :eek:

    If you want to actually be exposed to the truth of the matter. Neither party is entirely out of power no matter who is president. Our government simply isn't a dictatorship controlled solely by one person. It was designed that way. Blaming one person for everything is simply a lazy mental exercise in political partisanship with little relationship to the actual influences that move the policies of this country. You'll probably never understand that.
     
    3 people like this.
  7. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    Clinton had plenty of policies I disliked. NAFTA comes to mind. Clinton did however, balance the budget and hand over to Bush a budget surplus to which Bush promptly stated, "It's your money,", and proceeded to dole out the first of 2 huge tax breaks primarily benefiting the wealthy. How'd that trickle down workout? 8 years later, in spite of giving the "job creators" huge sums of money, we crashed anyway. Regulation of the banking industry by any government entity would have headed off the problem but as you know, the Right is allergic to any and all government regulations. Bush at any time could have enforced existing mortgage lending standards during his two terms but did what all Republicans do... He chose to cut the head of the enforcement agency off instead. Even if Clinton and the Republicans in congress created the free for all in the financial sector, the tools still existed for Bush to enforce lending standards that he chose to ignore. So please do not simply blame one person or the other for everything. It is more than just obtuse, it is obtuse on steroids.
     
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  8. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Seems to me we have had that discussion several times before - when you were trying to blame Bush and I said all laws come from the Democratic Congress. You disagreed with me then. I wonder what changed your mind.
     
  9. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    I don't blame Obama for the recession. I blame Obama for his liberal polices. Five years (and counting) and (as you say) we still have high unemployment, a sluggish economy, depressed wages and all the other aspects that go along with a deep recession. Hell, World War II didn't take this long!

    It seems to me that the Left enjoys placing the blame squarely on Bush's shoulders for policies that were put in place long before he took the reins. Can anyone say "double standard"?

    Hardly. I've already stated that Bush was mistaken on not stopping the policies that Clinton enacted.

    Who is blaming just one guy? If you'll notice Post #44, I listed many factors which led to the collapse of which Clinton was a major factor. Ignoring that fact is just hiding your head in the sand.
     
  10. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    I blame Bush for the things Bush actually did. You can't seem to acknowledge that Bush did anything wrong. Bush had a Republican controlled congress for 6 of his 8 years in office. The closest the Dems came to controlling either side of congress was when there was a 50-50 split in the Senate and we all know who breaks those ties.
     
  11. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    Truth be told, we've run into tough times regardless of which party happened to be in charge. What makes BO such a failure is the prolonged nature of our current condition & his absolute ineffectiveness in righting the ship. With everything being so flat and confidence so low, I just don't sense that anyone sees a light at the end of the tunnel while BO is calling the shots.
     
  12. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    Without Obama having any control over the purse strings, can you point out which jobs packages the Republicans have passed in the last 5 years to help get people back to work? Austerity has been their mantra along with smaller government of course and government hiring is really one of the few vehicles government actually has to help put people back to work so while you can blame the economy on Obama, congress needs to stimulate the economy not the president. Plenty of stimulus legislation has been proposed by the Democrats and just as often killed by Boehner. It becomes pretty clear even to the casual observer that making this country suffer is all that Republicans really want so that idiots can blame the black guy. Congress could act at any point but instead Boehner sets records for least days worked and then beats his own record the following year. Another stimulus would go along way to putting people back to work sooner but you and I both know that the Republicans would never allow it to come to a vote.
     
  13. arizonaJack

    arizonaJack Well-Known Member

    I hate typing on this galaxy tablet but here goes.
    Clembo, Romney is a gun grabbing liar and Cruz is owned by Goldman Sachs, his wife is on board of directors. In a nutshell I am done voting. Never again, its all rigged.
    When a person becomes prez they sit that person down and say this is the way its going to be, bitch, now get out there and read what we type on your teleprompter and pretend you actually make a difference.
    Hope I make sense because on this new tablet of mine the screen disappears when I type so bear with me until I figure out these settings.
    As to commie joe, he did say he thinks the constitution is toilet paper. From that point on every american on this forum should know what he is, an enemy of the state. In my opinion he alone has destroyed and divided this site, much like his commie hero has done to this nation. The handlers make the decisions but the messanger sets the tone.
     
  14. arizonaJack

    arizonaJack Well-Known Member

    Anyone who thinks republicans and democrats are different, is fooling themselves. At least on the national level that is.
    Look at john Boehner, cantor, paul ryan, mccain, graham, et al........I cannot think of anyone in the republican party worthy of my vote, nope not even amnesty rand paul of that piece of stink marco rubio.
     
  15. arizonaJack

    arizonaJack Well-Known Member

    In orwells 1984 they changed enemys every now and then after hate week. Gee......elections and primary season.........
    Oh, yeah, they also increased chocolate rations from 31 to 25 grams a month......
    Ok, enough on this , im off to have a victory gin.
    Not really but you get tha drift.......
     
  16. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    You are apparently so biased you cannot understand posts contrary to you mores. Yet somehow I have never ever seen you post anything negative about Obama. Even when he was caught red handed lying, you defended his lies.
    Who had control of the Senate in 2000? Who was in charge of the Congress when the recession hit?
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.

    BTW, somehow, Bush manged to survive the Democratic control without the perpetual complaining about the Democrats blocking everything and even without the nuclear option.
     
  17. CoinOKC
    Yeehaw

    CoinOKC T R U M P 2 0 2 4

    Obama was hired to fix the economy. Why America would elect a community organizer from Chicago to fix the economy is another story we won't get into right now, but the fact remains that he was hired to fix the economy.


    He's been given five years so far to fix the economy. So, has he fixed it? Not even close. He has focused on the train-wreck of Obamacare and his March Madness picks, but not much else. Americans know this and they don't like it. Voters can put a stop to the idiocy next November by voting out the liberal dumbocrats in Congress. A recent Pew Research poll indicates that Americans are sick and tired of Obama's liberal policies leading us down the path to ruin. Just a word to the wise: this doesn't bode well for liberals next year.

    From the Pew Research poll:

    November 8, 2013
    Obama’s job ratings on the economy have been more negative than positive for more than four years, but the current measure is the worst of his presidency. Just 31% approve of the way Obama is handling the economy, while 65% disapprove.

    http://www.people-press.org/2013/11/08/obamas-second-term-slide-continues/
     
    2 people like this.
  18. David

    David Proud Enemy of Hillary

    Dang, it's kinda scary but I think I may just agree with this guy for once...
     
  19. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    Says the guy who doesn't vote. You have no say in the process you refuse to participate in and certainly no right to call yourself an American. Commies don't vote either. Thanks for playing comrade. If you only had the intelligence to see what an old fool you are. You shoot yourself in the face every time you post. By all means, keep posting.
     
  20. JoeNation
    No Mood

    JoeNation The ReichWing Abuser

    38 straight months of job growth seems to argue with your opinion. Sorry if cleaning up the Right's mess isn't fast enough for you guys but with historical obstructionism from your side, the process is just going to take longer than it should.

    According to a Gallup poll done at the end of the twentieth century, about one-third of Americans believe aliens have visited us, while another poll revealed that some 3 million Americans believe they've personally experienced alien encounters.

    Americans! What will they believe next?
     

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