Tyranny: Could you spot it?

tyranny >noun (pl. tyrannies) 1 cruel and oppressive government or rule. 2 a state under such rule. 3 cruel and arbitrary exercise of power or control.


This is not an attack on anyone. Nothing more than a friendly question on a political forum, that may serve to enlighten.
So what form do you think this would take shape in? Can it happen here? Is it possible? Is it possible that power hungry people would want to abuse power and NOT have your best interest in mind in the 21st century?

I know, I know. They give out welfare and food stamps so they MUST care about people. They give you back SOME of your own money that you pay in to their illegal income tax. (I know it is necessary....now, but illegal none-the-less.) After all, they don't have to give it back to you.

Lets look at con-artists. From the best one in the world down to the worst possible con-artist in the world, they operate by getting you to like them. They HAVE to be likable! They get you to trust them. They get you to have faith in them. They may befriend you. Most people never realize anything is wrong until all their money's gone!

Most people I talk to will be taken for a ride. Even despite obvious warning. The Key here being: When the money's gone, it's too late.

It's too upsetting to think that somebody in power (or in general) would not have their best interests in mind. It is better and far easier to assume that they do and then do their best to ignore facts, quotes,and actions. The herd mentality is overwhelmingly accepted because it is safer from ridicule. Although scary when actually analyzed.

Forget about Obama for right now. It's too late anyway. Maybe he is going to be the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe he won't want to infringe on our rights and he will deliver us to the promised land. We have no choice but to give him a chance now.

All I ask is that people be vigilant, know what's important and don't be afraid to question SOMETHING (as in one thing now and then) that is told to you that MAY be bad. They may actually lie to you! You shouldn't have to spend a lot of time rationalizing, and coming up with reasons or excuses to justify new laws that fly in the face of our Constitution.

One example. Do we want a blanket law over everybody allowing our phones to be wire tapped in order to catch a single terrorist? Should we ask for this and beg for it because "we have nothing to hide?" I would rather see force met with force in real time, should a situation arise. As in, I would rather have an armed, law abiding citizen at the location of a terrorist in action so the terrorist could be *physically* gunned down. The beauty of this scenario is that it doesn't affect anyone up to the point when it actually happens. And, it doesn't affect anybody immediately after it happens. But in the end, the best case scenario was achieved, reguardless of any other plan or idea

Wire tapping is a 24/7, 365, blanket operation infringement, over everyone, in effect no matter if nothing is going on, that still WILL NOT physically stop a terrorist that gets through, and is in the act. Which scenario is better for the American people?

It's your responsibility as a US citizen to be informed and be prepared.

CNN is not going to come out and tell you that this person or that person is ripping rights away from you. Or that this is the beginning of our decline. They won't even know. There will be no warning for you.

You need to see it and LOOK for it, for yourselves. Tyranny is not going to slap you in the face and hold up a big cartoon sign. It will come in the form of a wolf in sheep's clothing. People will need to be deceived and fooled, quite possibly by a mild manored, humble, caring, well spoken individual, promising gifts and protection.

Many here may not like me and that's fine. Just know that I care about my family, you and your families, this physical country and the history of this country. That's all that matters.
I am not completely informed, but I try my best to stay on top of things and know as many issues as possible. I question everything these days. It hasn't always been that way.
But I am not your enemy. I am here for us, to the furthest extreme. I only wonder how many could give me the same back. Sadly, I suspect very few.

 

I have not liked what we have given up in the name of Terror in the last 7 years. One thing I believe, though, is that Fear is not the only way to enslave a people. 'Need' can be used just as easily, if not more so. If the government is the only thing providing your needs, as opposed to you being able to provide them for yourself, you will not be free.

I voted Libertarian this year and, while I do not think the country could thrive on a 100% Libertarian agenda, I do think this country could desperately use a Libertarian correction.

 

The thing that gets me is when I've seen Presidents, especially Baby Bush, saying we are ridding the world of tyranny, when in fact, the capitol of tyranny is the good ole District of Columbia. There is so much I could say and prove, but it's late and I'm tired, so I will provide more input later.

While you and I don't see eye-to-eye on many things, Vess, I think we may have found a common footing for a change. I look forward to seeing where this thread goes!

Ribbit

 

You know your a lunatic, right? I'm sending this right off to C. Rice right now and they're gonna womp on ya'll


Ruben

God, these people really make you question the wisdom universal suffrage.

 

Toad
While we may disagree on many political issues, you are passionate in your perspective. I hearby nominate you as the 1st CT'er/PRWE'er to visit the Jerry Springer show. Or Art Bell.
Mumbo jumbo may feed the sheep, but it does not make a meal.

Your thoughts are yours and thats great, have at it.

The capitol of Tryanny is DC?

You sound like pair of disillusioned nutcases from Chicago. (Remember 9-11? Or perhaps that was out fault?)
Put another bowl of Kucinich in your bong and take a deep hit. Snort a line of Alex Jones while your at it.

EDIT: Before this gets misinterpeted, I mean Wright and Ayers, the Chicago referance, not any members here

 

Just on phone taps LOL so you want your goverment to combat terrorism and help to protect you but you dont want to allow them the tools to do the job? boy that makes so much sence, lets allow the terrorists to know that they can in all confidence plan opperations in the uSA on the telephone with no fear of any one finding out

 

Orc, you just don't seem to be getting what I'm saying. I want the government to combat terrorism in ways that don't infringe on people's rights (because they matter to me, I know you're not affected by the decisions) and that doesn't lay blanket laws across everybody, that I highly doubt are very effective anyway. They can talk on the phone all they want, and probably do! I'd bet they don't catch them all. Do we scan the mail too?

It's when they physically go to do something that I'm concerned with. We "have allowed them in all confidence" as you say, to not just plan, but the big one, "carry out" whatever they want without fear. Nobody is armed to stop them. Every and any target is a sitting duck for a good 20 minutes, at least, before anybody can get there to do anything. Are you still laughing? Is that fact funny? Hopefully this was direct enough to where you can't ignore it.

 

I proberly have more experiance of the direct impact of terrorism than you so kindly dont speak down to me or tell me that I find it funny.
Phone intertcepts has been proven to work for rather a long time and goes on every day of the week, the air waves (mobile phones) are checked for key words and phrases over here it is done by GCHQ at Chelternam and I am sure your CIA have a similar facility.
Now tell me how having a armed population will stop a car bomb if you dont know what it is? or how about a suicide bomber, what you going to do shoot him and hope the bomb dont go off? What are they going to do shoot any person who might look like he is from the mid east?
Phone intercepts can and do give your security service a fighting chance of stopping a terrorist action before it gets to the stage were innocent lives are lost.
As for the mail that is allready scanned to check for suspiciouse packages and mail is opend on a regular basis.
No I quite agree they wont catch them all but taking out a single cell is better than non at all.

Have a read

http://www.gchq.gov.uk/

 

Illegal search and seizures and rescinding Habeous Corpus would probably help keep people safe too. Heck, assigning a cop to live in each home and follow its residents 24/7 would be a good way to stop terrorism in its tracks.

Having rights and freedoms entails risk and danger. It is just how much of the former we are willing to give up to reduce the latter.

 

Well De, we just dont like it going on here. With all the 21st century has brought us, I find it hard to believe wire tapping is needed. If it is so needed, then give evidence to a judge and let the legal system allow it. That seems simple enough. It doesnt take that long. So whats next? The government can just come into your house and ''look around'' without a warrant. Woluld that be ok? Arrest people the old fashion way; plant evidence on them!

 

A couple of things for you to ponder on, you say well get the evidence and go to a judge (in a simple criminal matter that is ok), but that my friend takes time and you might not have the time, and how do you get the evidence in the 1st place? intel must come from somewhere.
Placing a cop on all street corners LOL that woudnt work, do any of you know what a terrorist looks like? (they dont wear big signs you know) they look just like you or I do.
You have to have safeguards in place obviously, but you are fighting a war and these people do not wear uniforms, they do not play by any civilized rules of warfare.
How many of you have actualy seen the devistation caused by a car bomb? I know I have and it is not a nice sight. Ask our friend from the Lebanon what he thinks about measures to combat terrorism, ask the Isralies, ask those of us in the UK who have lived with it, ask the Russians.
Some of you have called me a libral in the past, well I know what so called librals think of phone taps LOL they agree with you guy's 100% same with our socialist brothers
So far (and I thank god for it) you have not had to put up with a car bombing campaign but one day I am sorry to say those nuts will land on your shores or even be homegrown.
What price do you put on the survival of your Republic?
You might well not like what I say but unfortunatly it is one of the symptoms of our times.

 

DE Oc, It doesnt take long to get a warrant. Are you talking days? And if there is no evidence then theres no case. Its the law. It has good points and bad points. We grew up being told that someone is innocent until proven guilty. That guilt isnt placed on a hunch, or a guess. Car bombing is a simple criminal case. Domestic crime is for the police. I dont want to give law enforcement carte blanche to fight crime. there are rules that need to be followed. And if that means someone goes free, well thats the price you pay for feedom. No we didnt put up with a car bombing ''campaign''. We put up with a fly a plane into a building campaign. And that becomes a criminal case. And if those behind that ever get caught, iit should be Handled by NYPD, the FBI and federal court. Not the military. And my friend, if the case isnt handled properly those culpable can be set free. Its called Police work. No one wants to do that anymore? Yes its a symptom of our times. But if we stoop to the level of those that want to destroy us; we become them. The end never justifies the means. And might doesnt make right. At least thats what I was taught.

 

Actually, there is no constitutional protection against wiretapping and frankly, they can tap my phone any time, or over hear me talk on the subway or whatever...but I'm a different kind of fish.

Ruben

 

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

Spoken like a good little slave. I think you should invite an FBI agent to live with you as well. You're clean! You don't have anything to hide!

People like you will never relate with people like me. I'm simply against the invasion of privacy. You invite and encourage it. I'm willing to speak up against infringements. You're willing to rationalize anything. If a new gun ban is imposed, I see it as pissing on the Constitution....again. You and your buddies will find a way to rationalize why it is needed because you think it doesn't affect you. Any infringement on any right is ok with anyone until it affects them personally.

Hopefully when they demand 75% of your income for taxes, you will have the strength to rationalize that as well.

I don't see much use in us communicating on this forum any further.

 

Wow! Something we agree on, Vess1. People who think its ok for wiretapping claiming they have nothing to hide are the ones that let invasion of privacy happen. So its ok that someone can over hear you being intimate with your wife. Or other family matters that should only be kept to yourselves. It may be harmless, but who the hell are they that they need to hear it?

 

LOL! I was scrolling down, getting ready to take another verbal beating but low and behold, a common thread. Like reaching across the aisle.

I completely agree. It's just another slippery slope leaving you ask, "where does it end?"

"Those who would sacrifice essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither." - Ben Franklin

There are risks in life. If we try to shield ourselves from every risk that exists, you wouldn't be able to do anything. The restrictions would need to be endless.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, Vess, but I think I can sum it up for you. You believe that the government should fight terrorism without impeding on the 4th & 5th Amendment Rights of its citizens (not that some of the idiots here know what they are).

Someone once said:

It is better one hundred guilty persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer.

Then someone else said:

It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape.

Then another person said:

It is better to risk saving a guilty man than to condemn an innocent one.

But what you need to understand Vess, is that doesn't apply to a Muslim, since Muslims did not create the freedom of religion in our Constitution that so many covet, nor the freedom from persecution/prosecution without just cause that all Americans demand. Muslims aren't American and the past election should have taught you that and with that understanding, the government doesn't know who is or isn't a Muslim supporter so that gives them every right to stomp all over our rights, to weed out the undesirables.

Ribbit

Ps: In case someone reads this and doesn't realize it, I was being sarcastic in the last paragraph.

 

As you say it is your land and you run it as you will, but please remember that the next time something happens, please do not start on that your goverment should have done more to protect you, they can only protect you if you allow them to, and they can not do so if you tie there hands.
Just to clarify I do not believe that I said anywere that it should be handled by the the military I doubt if they would want it in the 1st place) and to be honest most cops coudnt handle it (they are just not trained for it), the FBI certainly, they I believe are trained in anti terrorist measures as I would imagine are members of your homeland security.
Do you agree with Gitmo? the holding of people indefinatly without charge?

 

No. I dont. Nor do I believe in tribunals. Thats my point. The US military is holding those guys. Maybe the British are use to being less free. I dont know. And I'm not taking it for granted, its what this country is all about.