Should The 2nd Amendment be Repealed?

Just using your own stated numbers to calculoate your 300,000 dollar income Jack. Cant handle the truth as usual.PS. Ted is wacked..a victim of lobotomy 2.0.
He needs heavy meds and a priest.

 

Welcome back, tomc. You saw the light on your 9/11 delusions now perhaps you will snap out of your hatred for everyone more successful than you.

 

I'm going off subject here but have to relate a few things here. An experience today is the main reason why.

First, I wouldn't go quite that far Jack but I'm certainly not the "typical liberal" that is referred to so much these days.
Having never been in a union nor wanted to that would pretty much make a Republican in my neck of the woods. I have voted Republican but that doesn't make me one.
You stated to me some time ago (don't know if it was between us or in a forum) that I'm more of a "fighting for an ideal guy". That pretty much sums me up.

This in mind here's the problem I have with the "a Consevative wants to catch a fish while a Liberal wants a free fish" analogy.
Are there people out there that want something for nothing? No brainer there and it's been that way for a long time.
I worked jobs that exposed me to this "ghetto mentality" for wont of a better phrase. It's nothing new and won't go away.
I also saw the working mother of three working two jobs and going to school to get out of that situation.

That aside here's one that struck me today. A guy came into to sell some jewelry.
He wasn't a bum. He was a clean cut man in his late 50s. 59 to be exact. Not the first like him I've seen at the shop.
Most times when people are selling jewelry it's not because they want to it's because they have to.

I treat them with respect and often hear why. Here's what I heard today and I have no reason to doubt it.
He lost his job over a year ago. He was in management at one of the steel mills. Management are not union. What they are is dispensible. He was let go after 12 years.
He had been in similar positions most of his life. Before that he was a US Marine.

He didn't overextend himself. Told me he hasn't had a credit card in 6 years. He has sent out 340 resumees with no luck. He has been to interviews and told he was "overdressed". He has been told he was "over qualified" and believe it or not I have had those same dirty words used on me.
I know about "over qualification". I've seen it as the person hiring people. He'll be here for six months and leave so he has no chance. Costs money to train people for ANY job so you weigh the risks.
Yes, I've been that person as well as being the person applying for that job because I was willing to work and had bills to pay.

So here's a guy that has worked all his life and WANTS to work but just can't get in the door.

Indicidentally my boss had given an amount he would pay and then everyone except me sat down for lunch. I can relate to guys like this.

I told him how I could relate because I can. I've been there as well but thankfully NEVER unemployed that long. What really got me though was when he told me that people that think they have it so good better wake up. He certainly never expected this. This doesn't just happen to people looking for handouts folks. Considering the guy's backround there's a good chance he has been a staunch Repulican. I can't say that but I can surmise it.

So I paid him the whopping $269.50. He had to provide ID. His hair was grey on his license but now it's brown. He told me he dyed it to increase his chances of getting a job.
Obviously a lazy bum looking for a handout.
He then told me what I gave him was he used to make in a day. More than me for sure but a harsh reality. Then he shook my hand, thanked me and left.

NOW, since I have met Jack personally I'd like to toss this in. Sorry to bring you into this Jack but I must and will again before this post is over!

I hear my boss spouting his "wisdom" every day to customers with no clue as to what they believe. Sorry to say but generally older, white customers. One of my favorites is "all these people just want everything for free". He's clueless.

ANOTHER favorite concerns IDs. If an older, white lady doesn't have it handy we just get the information. It's really only to protect from buying stolen goods after all. He explains this with (and I have it memorized) "if you had 8 tatoos and a nose ring it would different".

Well, don't get a nose ring Jack. LOL. He would offer you less and you BETTER have an ID. Yep, profiling but it's his store and there are no set rates.

I hear this type of "wisdom" every day. I've seen some really good potential customers driven off because my boss is so rude to them because they are heavily tatood or pierced. I couldn't care less. If you have some knowledge, ettiquette and money you're a good customer.

So why do I put up with this? - because this "lazy lib" is working. I NEVER discuss politics at work as I not only NEED the job but enjoy it. Come on guys you wouldn't want to work in a coin shop?

The boss can also be quite generous at times. We recently got raises. We didn't ask for them but I sure won't argue. I figured maybe a buck an hour and WHOA a $4 an hour raise!

You bet I thanked him. This is real helpful in our house.
My wife? Spent years in the mortgage business then that fell to pieces. Nothing happening so she took handouts.
That is unless you count the fact that she started her own business. We like animals so she is a self employed pet sitter. Business is slow but gaining some regular clients.
For Christmas this year I paid for advertising.
When it's busy she runs her butt off. When not she gets the occasional few hours in the mortgage business.
If you don't believe me I know folks that can back me up on this.

There a lot more "liberals" out there that know how to fish folks. Lumping them all into one group doesn't help this country as a whole because there are a lot of "non-liberals" out there fishing too. Should we just ignore them and hope it goes away? Lose a lot of great workers in the process?

I think not.

Thus my ramble ends.

Well maybe not. My wife and I will be taking a short vacation soon. The last vacation either of us had was when I went to the Long Beach coin show courtesy of Jack.

Perhaps some might think it "foolish" but I started a "mad money" fund some time ago. After 4 years of going nowhere I'm taking my wife of 21 years on a short vacation.

We earned it.

 

Ahhhhhhh, ok
Well, none of your business, but I am no longer with my wife, so lose that figure, would you?

 

Clembo
I wont quote your novel , but I will reply.....

I dont see the point. As a repo, maybe even staunch, he is looking for a chance to work and earn his way........We all have been on tough times. Hell, I have sold dozens of guitars when I lived in Hollywood and a junkie. Most times not for bills and food either....

I was a conservative junkie, lol, believe it or not. I took any studio gig I could get, played with any band that would have me, and even did some side work as a machinist. Never once colected an unemployment check because I never had a job long enough to qualify....

Thanks to the brain damaged whack job nutcase Ted, I now have a job, dozens of guitars in my collection again, and am clean conservative. If I get laid off, hell yeah I'll collect unemployment while looking for work.

If I cannot find work, then it is time to create my own income, I do have some experience with hot sauce yannow

Not a " free fish" bone in my body bud, nor have I or will I ever blame others or the system for keeping me down. Only I can keep me down. My decisions define my future.

 

Clembo, I agree experience shapes ones perceptions but for every "bad things happen to good people" story there are thousands of cases of dead beats just looking for freebies. I believe this isn't the case of the guy you met but you gotta agree we have a problem. I can tell you countless stories of people I have met over the years. My wife & I have chaired the Giving Tree project at our church for the past 5 or 6 years where we make sure families in need have a Christmas (this past year we helped over 300 people plus a seniors home, a youth center & a homeless shelter). I can't tell you how many times I've delivered items to people's homes filled with laptops, huge tv's, cell phones and the cigarettes...they all seem to smoke cigarettes, what does a pack or carton cost? Or, at work, the people we interview for jobs who are going through the motions so they can keep receiving unemployment checks?

 

I too have seen that sort of deception. Working with The American Cancer Soceity led my wife and I to help with the Giving Tree. One year we received a letter that was one of the most touching. This single parent of three was one of the few we chose, and as we pulled up with toys, bikes, clothes and a tree, there in the driveway was a new Caddilac Escalade. And like you, inside was a big screen TV and the like. Then the woman showed no sign of appreciation, but rather a rude greeting. We were very disheartened. But thankfully those are the few for that organization. It does happen, and shame on them. But you try to forget those scammers and move on. Its gotta be rough to be without a job for those who desire to get back on track. But two years or more of unemployement checks is insane. And youre right David, alot of the recipients just go the the motions of looking for a job. I think the process needs to be stringent.

 

They were not originally at the beginning...

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.

That came out of a committee reworded to:

A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; but no person religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms.

The way I see it, it isn't there because of its importance. It is more likely that a committee probably just thought it flowed better.

 

For those who might be interested, I am forbidden by the laws of the United States from bearing arms in her defense. And I'm not a convincted felon. The only crimes I've been convicted of are a few moving violations. But I do legally own a gun (a rifle, actually).

All that being said, it would set a dangerous precedent for us to start repealing other parts of the Bill of Rights. Because what would be next? Trial by jury? Not so far fetched. Jury trials are expensive, and understanding crimes (particularly white collar ones) can be confusing for all but trained specialists. Why not just let judges decide? Lest you think it unlikely, a British Home Secretary advocated this a few years back. Nothing came of it, but once it's proposed, the genie's out of the bottle.

 

Dishonorable discharge?

 

KLJ it actualy has happend over here, in certain cases of company fraud etc a jusry can be dispenced with as such cases can be deemed too complicated for a layperson, the other type of trial is of course Terrorism. This has been going on for years against the IRA

 

Oh my dear god, your a murderer, COP KILLER! you own a weapon of mass destruction. Everyone in this forum is going to refer your name to the proper authorities.

Oh wait how many people have you killed since you owned that rifle? 50? 20? 5? Oh zero really? That's hard to believe, 'Im told that owning guns actually turns a normal person criminal? Just look at all the killings the citizens are performing in AZ with the open carry law. UH OH Drug Cartel members have weapons over there, looks like we the citizens need to turn our legal weapons in whilst they keep their "illegal" weapons, just as the mexican president said....we're the criminals folks, I feel bad already.


Warm welcome and 1st post to the forum!

Also everyone that says "left" says this and the "right" says that, you all really need to start thinking outside of the box for starters, less TV, and more common sense should do the trick.

 

If common sense were in ample supply amongst our informed citizens, 911 and like horrors would have exposed via the brilliance that is our public.

 

I guess I dont get around very much but its been a while since I heard any one mention Common Sense. It seems to be gone from America, and if you perform a deed or task that was a result of common sense, it seems that it always results in getting into trouble one way or another. And I think the 2nd amendment should be left alone, it sits just fine with me.

Steve

 

The problem with common sense is that your interpretation of it is just that, Your interpretation. Ask ten people for examples of common sense and I guarantee you that you'll get wildly different ideas of common sense. For example, your last statement. If I were to take it as "common sense" I'd have to ignore all the harm that is done to society by guns by both legal and illegal gun owners. Ignoring a problem doesn't sound like common sense to me.

 

I am not ignoring anything Moen1305; my brother was killed in 1988 with a saturday night special. He is gone. It was an accident, it went off as another boy was showing it to him. He was 16. I am an ex-Special Forces soldier that has used his weapon to close with and kill the enemy. A firearm is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. One can kill you. So can a motor vehicle. Thats the way I see it.

Steve

 

People like dr moen...the elitist liberals hiding in academia...will stop at nothing to chip away at our individual rights & freedoms. They believe they know what is best for us & only the elite few are capable of making those decisions.

 

Now that is common sense. The same people in our society who perceive guns as a threat to human life routinely ignore the fact that automobiles are the most dangerous piece of metal they will ever use. I consider myself a victim of attempted murder on almost a daily basis. These idiots are out there on the road literally trying to kill me!

So why are automobiles legal if they kill so many people? Just about everybody recognizes that they are a necessary evil. Transportation is necessary to perform even the most basic tasks in our lives therefore we are willing to accept the risks associated with driving. However, many people do not consider guns a necessary evil. The reason is because guns are not necessary on a daily basis like automobiles. This is precisely the reason that the framers of the constitution protected the right to bear arms. They recognized that many would not have the forethought to understand that the necessity of guns only becomes obvious when you need them.

 

Dr Moen,
Is this true?

Steve

 

There is no interpretation of common sense. Its either common sense or it isnt. Thats it. The right to own a gun is just that. A right. I bet you stand firm on the freedom of the press or the freedom of speech. Why? Perhaps you think our founding fathers had the foresight to include these as rights so that they remain as important now as they did then. Yet somehow you figured they dropped the ball on the 2nd Amendment? Youre wrong on this issue. sorry. But its true. And while I dont agree to the comparison of the gun and the auto (the auto main intent is not for killing), I do believe that gun ownership should never be banned from those allowed to legally possess one. Or two or three. And remember, 'The necessity of the waffle iron only becomes obvious when one is necessary'. Or something like that.