Maybe This is What They Didn't Want us to See? (Wikileaks)

Ain't patriotism and American values special? LOL!

 

So you equate raping young Afghan boys to patriotism and American values? How's life in La-La Land?

 

It's just "the market" at work here. Capitalism triumphing over regulation. We gotta let the markets decide what's acceptable, and it of course, is acceptable, so long as a buck can be made.

 

I simply mean that "WE" Americans are paying for this and even if you try really hard, you can't ignore our hand in this. Try and see this from the perspective of an Afghan. They don't see those of us that are sickened by this type of thing, all they see is Americans coming into their country and defiling their children. We have the luxury of distancing ourselves from those that commit these crimes even though we support them being there, pay for them to be there, and pretty much do little more than be disgusted by their behavior when we find out about their activities while the Afghans have to deal with the aftermath of our actions. As far as patriotism and American values goes, that is how the war is sold to us so that is how I choose to define the consequences of our actions. You can't use one set of principles to define the good things and another set of principles to define the bad things and be honest with yourself.

 

So, let's say a homicide is committed in your neighborhood and several police officers go to the house of the suspected perpetrator. Upon arriving, they arrest him or perhaps kill him if he pulls a gun on them. Now, let's say that one bad cop wanders off into a back room of the house, finds some gold jewelry and steals it. The mother of the suspect to whom the jewelry belonged is mad as a killer bee about the theft and should rightfully be so.

But, should she really be mad at the other police officers who came to her house and arrested her son who just killed someone? Shouldn't her anger be directed toward the officer who stole the jewelry and not the entire police force or the authority which allowed them to be there in the first place?

I'm going to continue to pay for the police force to be there and I'm going to continue to "distance myself" from those who commit crimes. I'll continue to "be disgusted" by those who choose to commit disgusting behavior. But I'm not going to lump the actions of the entire police force into one pile and demonize them based on the actions of a few.

 

What if, in your analogy, the policeman's superiors covered up the crime, and you only found out because someone working a desk in the police department leaked knowledge of the crime? That is exactly the situation we have in this instance and as I said, I doubt the Afghan population makes the distinction between those committing the crimes and the Americans they have no knowledge of. In this case, the US government knew what was going on and chose to cover it up.

 

I'm disgusted by that behavior, too. But, I'm not going to shut down the police force because of a few bad apples.

 

I don't think anyone suggested shutting anything down but I think it behooves us to think about how these wars are sold to us and compare that to the reality of how they actually play out.

 

I don't know about that. Doesn't the patriot act give them the right to anything? Besides...it the story can turn a corporate buck or two, what's the harm?

 

Why do people trust Wikileaks so much? Who is this Wikileaks? Except for Julian Assange, nobody knows who their sources or employees are. Where's the accountability in that? Julian Assange has stated he has a bias against the United States. Knowing that, why should we trust his objectivity? How do we know he's not suppressing documents that would make the US appear as just this side of the Kingdom of Heaven?

I'm not saying the things they've leaked haven't happened. Odds are, they did. I'm just wondering why Wikileaks is unquestionably so trusted.

 

Probably because our government and most things associated with it are themselves so infamously UNtrustworthy. Throw in the corporate agenda and trust becomes anyone that differs.

 

That pretty much applies to any situation.

 

I am not sure what they are worrying about any ways a lot of what has come out we allready knew! take us Brits not been up to taking over Helmand province (Shock Horror) hell I said that over a year ago we just dont have the capability to opperate on two fromts like that (lack of equipment) any one who reads a decent newspaper knows that the Saudies were not overly keen on Iran LOL and on it goes

 

Thank you for proving my point. "Trust becomes anyone that differs." I'll note you did not say trust becomes anyone that tells the truth. For there's only one truth, and an infinite number of ways to lie. How do we know which we're getting from Wikileaks?

Again, are the Wikileaks documents true? Yes. Do they tell the WHOLE truth? That's another question entirely, and one that has yet to be answered.

 

Actually your point was not proven and WikiLeaks doesn't create the information it posts, it simply posts the information people like Private Bradley Manning provides them directly from downloads of U.S. military computers. Hard to question that source. As far as the "whole" truth, they have yet to release some of the most damaging documents so the "whole" truth is probably a lot uglier than we have seen so far. I think doubting the source is simply not a relevant point of view and certainly a stretch of a point to make and suggesting that a total release of the rest of the documents would be a way of somehow making us look better, is just an indication of how naive you are about this subject. Sorry Padre, you started out against the idea that WikiLeaks had any credibility and lost most of your own in the process.

 

Truth is not a game the government engages in. Be serious. The whole truth? Who actually knows for sure and who would verify it one way or another? The government? You see the ridiculousness of your point, don't you?