The burden of student loan debt....

What's the disclaimer say? I can't access the info. Full info if possible please.

 

Here's a link to the page:

Financial Aid Office

Click on the link that says "average student loan debt"

 

You are simply the most ignorant person in this forum. Is SIU supposed to start selling buildings and other assests to pay their expenses? Do you have the slightest idea what an endowment is? I did notice that the one thing you might be qualified to comment on is something I posted and that is the fact that SIU is laying off teachers due to budget issues but you ignored that and instead decided to talk about 2008 financials that you simply don't have the ability or intelligence to comment on without sounding like a complete idiot.

By the way, all assests from the copy machines to the buildings are owned by the state.

 

Ok, I can see the average student loan debt (from '04 '05 but year doesn't matter here I think) ...What was your position on it? What point are you making regarding it?

 

You always know you have dr moen in a corner when he starts with the insults...heck, I got it twice so he must really be reeling!!
Oh, where to start, where to start? Obviously I used this school, dr moen, because it was the one you mentioned in one of your posts. I used 2008 because that was the most recent year's info the school released. Twist it how you want but any enterprise with $133m in assets vs $7m in liabilities is in a pretty sweet position. Now, suppose you tell us what the $79m in endowments is used for if not to finance certain aspects of the school.

 

Just curious, but what do companies and people sell to pay off their debt? Think about that for a moment.

 

I wasn't insulting you, I was merely stating a fact based on all the misinformation you have posted....And it has been considerable. The 133 million dollars in assets belongs to the state of Illinois NOT the University. Do you not understand what "state owned" means? Why don't you just face the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about?

I told you in the beginning that you have no chance of winning an argument with your knowledge base on this subject and you just continue to prove me right with every post. You simply ignore the fact that Universities like SIU are non-profits, state owned, government entities that are losing the state revenue streams more and more every year but have to keep the lights on in spite of huge decreases in allocations from the state. You simply can't acknowledge that all of the Right wing anti-education, anti-government, anti-intellectual BS you have been pushing for years has finally come home to roost for your kids. Too bad sucker! You reap what you sew and now you want to blame those that had nothing to do with your Right wing attacks on education. Sorry, you just can't have it both ways. I hope you personally go broke trying to pay for your kid’s education. It would be sweet justice for your shortsightedness and I sit here with 3 College Illinois College Tuition plans because I saw this coming. Now you’re begging for financial help and complaining that your kids will be saddled with debt. Please imagine the world’s tiniest violin playing just for you.

Endowments:

A financial endowment is a transfer of money or property donated to an institution. The total value of an institution's investments is often referred to as the institution's endowment and is typically organized as a public charity, private foundation, or trust.

Among the institutions that commonly manage an endowment are: academic institutions (e.g., colleges, universities, private schools), cultural institutions (e.g., museums, libraries, theaters, hospitals) and religious establishments.

An endowment may come with stipulations regarding its usage. In some circumstances an endowment may be required to be spent in a certain way or alternatively invested, with the principal to remain intact in perpetuity or for a defined time period. This allows for the donation to have an impact over a longer period of time than if it were spent all at once.

 

David, I'm going to give you my opinion on your original post, to answer that question. But both you and Moen have made very good arguments. In short you asked if (I) believed Obama was doing a disservice to our nation's young by promoting the idea of getting student loans (and therefore a huge debt burden). I would have to disagree. You do have some valid points though.

I don't think most people fully grasp the difficulties they are going to face after taking on a loan, even if they become successfully employed. In most cases I see people struggling to pay off their debt for 10 years or more. And I believe this is the norm. I also believe when looking at ALL the points, I'd overwhelmingly agree with Moen. These burdens are, for the most part, within a certain amount of reason given the benefits further down the road (after 10 years or so have passed) And although schools have huge budgets, they simply are not set-up as profits. Yes, they reap the benefits of the loans (via enrollments) ...but so do the students (eventually)...

 

Yes! To the tune of a million dollars over their lifetimes. Good point IQ! David doesn't seem to want to acknowledge the investment aspect of a good education. Student loan debt has only increased because state governments and the federal government have steadily pulled back funding for education mostly at the behest of the Republicans. It simply smacks of hypocrisy for someone to spout Republican views and then ignore that the result of electing Republicans is higher tuition costs that Republicans pushed for decades. You can claim to have lowered government spending or you can claim to have kept tuition costs low for students. You just can't have it both ways in our political system.

 

Ah, here we go....nice try to deflect the truth but I have said repeatedly that I believe in the benefits of higher education so please stop re-telling that lie & focus on my real objection.
Let's agree that higher education is an investment. Do you typically borrow money to invest or do you invest money that you have, kinda pay as you go? Investment? Tuition? Same thing, right?

Oh yeah, one more thing dr moen- why don't you respond to the calls to explain your "money in the wrong hands" comment. There is a whole thread dedicated to it!

 

I'd agree, but for those who graduated. I did a search on Michigan Tech (a local college) and see it currently costs an average of $10,496 (in 2008) for "Total Student Related Expenditures / Total FTE (whatever that is)" & average 6 year graduation rate (between 58.9% in 2005 (lowest) to 64.6% in 2008 (highest)...data from 2003 to 2008). Granted, this doesn't mean 35% to 40% never graduate (I know quite a few who have been there a decade or more) but there are some who quit and are left with these loans. Overall a pretty good statistic when you count the "hanger-ons" who lengthen their stays. I doubt the percentage of students not graduating is higher than 10 to 15%, and probably less than that.

Even if half the graduates find it difficult to pay off their debt doesn't mean that incurring that debt, or encouraging someone to take it on, is unreasonable.

Note: didn't see David's post, was posting (writing) at same time.

 

I'm trying to figure out what this is. What is your "real objection"?

 

Let me go slow.....it is irresponsbile for BO and these schools to sell, sell, sell the burden of debt when other, more sensible alternatives exist. Doesn't that make sense?

 

Thanks, what alternatives?

 

Working? Paying as you go? Attend a less expensive school? Community college to get the basics out of the way?

 

Joining the armed forces.

 

I can agree with that. By working you mean not going to school I'll assume. Paying as you go, makes sense. I know a lot of students work, and go to school, to help pay off the loans or have spending cash when mommy and daddy refuse to send more money. Less expensive school ...yes, but I think most choose a college based on cost so not a huge point. Community college ...I wish I had been able to, would have saved me a bundle ...but I had an apartment (and a lease I couldn't get out of), and no car, so I went where I could walk. My mistake, I could have waited a year, and moved closer to the school.

Good points overall, especially the choice of work over school. That's what I did lol ...and yes, it was a cost issue. Both my parents were deceased by that time ...in fact, I went to college as a "final request" essentially from my mother. She didn't ask me to, but she definitely thought I should ...so I went. I paid as I went (one year in school - work study program while there + off-campus work), and paid for a few years after. So my experience supports your point ...but I still have to disagree with it overall.

 

FTE means Full Time Equivalent. The issue of retention has been addressed in campus surveys on my campus and probably just about every other institution as well and the number one reason a student drops out is money. Another factor is that many of these students simply apply and are accepted at other institutions. Community colleges are actually referred to as "feeder schools" because people start at a community college and finish at a larger 4-year institution in many cases. And of course there are people that never finish their degrees. My institution does everything it can to retain students including tuition waivers so that people that are near finishing their degrees, get counted as graduates rather than dropouts. And there are just some people that will never complete their degrees no matter what assistance they receive.

 

Again, every student always has the choice to do any or all of these things. Nobody holds a gun to their heads.

 

Thank you. As you can see, my issue was money. My original plan (after leaving college during 1st year) was to go to a Community college, then transfer to a larger school (probably Michigan Tech) ...but having no support system, among other issues, forced me to give that idea up. I briefly thought about it again 10 years ago... but decided against it. Overall, would have been too difficult. So, I'm one of the few that failed to complete my education, I'd still say the rate has to be pretty low, but don't think David's points are valid enough ...for people who choose to enroll.