Obama-Trump Birth Certificates

Employing the "I know you are, but what am I" strategy again huh? I claim to be a centrist conservative and state that you are a radical left wing lunatic. You respond by saying that the right is moving further right and that is what causes you to appear radically left.

Prove it! Those that are radically left or right will follow the party line on every political issue. If you really are not a left wing radical, tell us which political issue that you take a conservative stance?

I have claimed that I am a centrist conservative. I will pick abortion as my issue. I am strongly pro-choice! After you tell us which issue you lean to the right on, I will give you another issue that I support the liberal stance.

Sounds fair to me!

 

Lehigh96:

"So when you spoke of people not understanding my shorthand (420 High time), you were protecting others since you did know the meaning? IMO, it is completely acceptable to speak in code when discussing drug use."

Why must you continue to spin truths into something else. I did not understand your comment, but I am somewhat fluent in subtlety. The fact that your emphasizing "HIGH" from the original "high" suggests many things, I mentioned a couple of them. But now I'm apparently "protecting others"...? Again, while I may not fully understand your comments, I do form opinions based on them. I'm guessing you are too used to subterfuge and see conspiracies everywhere you look, but that is only my opinion and not a fact. I'm sure there is more to you than what you have chosen to reveal. As a further example though: I have no idea what "IMO" means to you, and while I may have some ideas, I hesitate to share them since the likely result would be more spin and ridicule.

Lehigh96: "This topic is dead. They are both American, and it was never really ever in doubt."

I disagree. The topic will live on, though I'm glad to see you have come to a rational conclusion regarding whether they are American or not. As for doubt, I'm sorry but saying there was never a doubt is wrong. It may never have been an issue for you personally, but it is still a very hot topic. But you have missed a crucial point I am trying to make. THE FOCUS OF THIS THREAD IS WHETHER OR NOT TRUMP HAS PROVED HIS CITIZENSHIP. My argument is that he hasn't. I'm sure he is an American, but he hasn't proved it. He's badgered Obama relentlessly on it, and claimed to have found his in an hour (or to be more accurate, had his people find it for him) and posted it, but that it isn't a legal document.

 

(Crickets chirping)


Oh well. The fact that a newcomer with username "IQless1" has gravitated to Moen's side is enough entertainment for the evening in itself.

As far as Trumps birth certificate is concerend, I just figured he'd get a free pass since he's white.





JK. I figured I'd throw that out there since I'm sure that's what a few radicals here were thinking anyway.

 

As far as my personal leanings on abortion. I believe it is a woman's choice, but consider it murder. Obviously, I condone murder in some cases, but find the idea of a woman choosing to murder her own child to be extremely repugnant. I have no idea how a woman could live with herself believing as I do, it would certainly devour my soul, but since I'm male i can only guess as to how they come to such a decision and cope with it. And yes, I have sisters who have had abortions.

 

I am here to entertain... (laughs) ...but also to rationally discuss a topic. I had (and still have) high hopes, but realized true discussions were going to be a rarity here when I joined.

 

Wow. Now all this forum needs is a gay, conservative, atheist and we'll really be diverse. Have to give you credit for your honesty and beliefs though. This is why it's impossible for everyone to be happy and there is no "one size fits all" political party.

I lean conservative but I will vote for whoever is the best man for a job, regardless of political affiliation.

 

vess1: "Wow. Now all this forum needs is a gay, conservative, atheist and we'll really be diverse."

I thought I owed it to lehigh96 to explain my view on a question he asked moen. Not sure how he would take it of course, but it is a genuine attempt to open a rational dialogue without us having to resort to personal attacks against one another.

 

You are free to offer your opinion of course, but I don't believe that you have the same radical beliefs that Moen does. Your alignment with him seems more for your own enjoyment than being a true believer.

 

Really, Computers didn't exist when Trump was born. IMO, a hand written birth certificate is more authentic than a computer generated document created years later.

 

Fair enough. I told Moen from the start that I believed I would agree with him on most issues, but not on all. He is aware of this. And as vess1 said a few posts ago "...there is no one-size-fits-all political party..."

I am trying to remain as neutral as I can be, though I may stray away from that from time to time. And of course, this is a place where your opinion should be shared. I will always try to respect other people's opinions.

 

I am sorry, but I cannot understand this properly. Could you please rephrase? And, not being funny, what is "IMO"?

 

The good Dr believes the concept of personal responsibility and living with the choices one makes to be "far right wing". He believes the gov't is capable of making better decisions concerning the direction of our lives than we are. And in case you missed it, dr moen believes the three people who best represent his point of view are Bernie Sanders (the only admitted socialist in Congress), the whacky one and done Alan Grayson & tv entertainer Stuart Smalley. Now, he will deny all of this because he knows how idiotic it sounds when it is said out loud so, as someone once said, "fear the hypocrite."

 

IMO=In my opinion and is a common internet abbreviation similar to LOL.

This is a computer generated document and was not created when Obama was born. This is a recreation of the document by the Health Department of Hawaii. It states as much at the bottom of the document. I am sure it is a legal document because I have one that looks very similar to that and have used it successfully whenever I needed a COB (Drivers License, Passport). I believe my birth certificate is from the PA department of vital statistics rather than the Health department.

You are claiming that this is not a legal document. However, this is very likely what Donald's parents were issued at the time of his birth. A preprinted form with a seal completed by hand by the doctor at the hospital on the day of his birth. Now I don't know if this is considered a legal document or not, but it convinces me that Donald Trump was born in Jamaica, Queens, New York City, NY.

Is that explanation sufficient?

 

Yes, thank you. I knew "IMO" was an abbreviation for something, just wanted to learn what, and how you use it, to become more familiar with your style of writing.

I don't believe the image of Obama's BC is computer generated. Like you said, you have something similar. The notations on the bottom indicate a paper origin to me (as I have also viewed many in person), though I may be wrong. But it would be consistent with a proper legal document (as you agree). The "copy" statement on the bottom is an explanation that the document isn't the original, or "long-form" version government agencies use, but typically don't allow access to. They (long-forms) are "internal" documents and are never released, though copies can sometimes by printed for you, if you ask for it in person.

The hospital may have given this (his recently released document) to Trump's parents, but a government agency, such as a school, would not accept this as legal. A true legal document is created by the government. With the type Trump provided, he would not have been admitted to a school, at least not nowadays. My girlfriend attempted this with our son years ago, they said it wasn't a legal document and needed a true BC.

 

I forgot to address this properly.

When the government creates an original Birth Certificate it is what most people call a "long-form". This is an internal document they keep forever in their records. You can usually get a copy of this, but must request for it specifically, and in person. It will usually be a photocopy of the original internal document. The original is NEVER released.

If you don't ask specifically for a copy of the "long-form" version, you will receive the "short-form" version (as you have attached on your reply). This is a true legal document, printed by the government (see "laser" on lower left of image), and is used whenever a proper identification is needed of your birth (though once you receive a driver's license, most non-government places don't ask for it) The image of Obama's "short-form" Birth Certificate is digital, yes ...but the actual document itself is printed on paper.

Thank you for your interest. I hope this helps you understand the various types of documents.

 

An apparently forgetting! (laughs) I also think the dates on the "short-form" may be misleading some to believe it was printed back when he was born. They are not an indication of when they were printed, they are a reference to the original "long-form" version. If you went to get a copy of your own today, it would have dates from the time when you were born and the time of filing (of the original "long-form") with the registrar, along with a stamp from the current registrar (Obama's appears to have his stamped on the reverse of the document, it's "bleeding" through).

 

I hate when this happens... (laughs) ...it should read "And apparently still forgetting!" ...I could have sworn it was all there when I posted, but may have missed it during one of my edits.

 

What is your point besides trying to sound like a befuddled expert on birth certificates? The document shown by Obama is a recreated legal document by the State of Hawaii and proof of his citizenship. Trump's document is an original document generated on the day of his birth at the hospital in which he was born. I don't know if it serves as a legal document, but it should cause any reasonable person to conclude that he is indeed a citizen of the US.

Now what part of that are you going to disagree with?

 

I have attempted to answer your questions, as well as educate everyone on the differences between the various types of documents in order to further the discussion about the thread. My original post was my opinion, the more recent ones are answers to questions anyone may have regarding the original post.

 

Uh, That does not answer this!