Wisconsin recall?

You are the biggest idiot in the entire world. Did you just say the numbers don't lie, REALLY? Looking at the scales . The union membership rate fell from 28% to 13% over 40 years which is a little more than 50%. The middle class share of national income dropped from 52% to 46% which is only an 12% decline. That graph proves that you are an idiot. Perhaps graphs of that nature are acceptable in your University or the government, but trying passing a graph like that off to your boss in the private sector and you will be looking for a new job. It may be the most disingenuous graph I have ever seen in my life.

Hey clown, wanna have some fun. Go plot that data on a graph using the same scale and see what happens to your direct relationship. And you have the nerve to call others on this forum . I thought those types of attacks were no longer allowed?

 

Perhaps it's because union membership is only a subset of the middle class national income? Duh? You really don't know how to read statistics do you? That's OK we all still love you for your bountiful pejoratives.

 

He might not know how to misinterpret statistics like you, but his reading is what yours is not - accurate.

 

It's a fallacy that unions are even remotely relevent today. The greedy manipulators who control the money & the far left who benefit from it are far more deserving of the blame than any other. Today, a union's sole purpose is to raise funds for the left.

 

Unions are people. They are working people. If corporations are people, albeit a much smaller group of people than unions represent, unions certainly qualify as people. In fact unions are the direct elected representatives of the people just like politicians. Who elected corporations and why does the massive power that incorporating a business bring make them equal to an ordinary citizen? They have all of the rights with none of the legal liabilities not to mention enough cash to buy the political process away from the people. If anything in this economic system has fail us, it has been the rise of the power of the corporations. I'm sure the founding fathers would have had a lot to say about corporations if they had existed during the founding of this country. Their only experience with economic oppression came from the East Indian Trading Company and I seem to remember that they told them exactly what they could do with their tea the time.

 

When you want to jump onboard and align yourself with someone who is completely wrong, you could always just turn on Fox. No need to come here and make yourself look like a fool. You don't even have the ability to comment on the statistics presented here. This data is entirely over your head so you throw out meaningless drivel like this comment without offering a single shred of evidence to prove his reading is accurate. Now go sit down.

 

No, today unions are a fundraising arm of the far left. Unions are comprised of captive workers who typically don't have a choice but to contribute a chunk of their income to the collective. Union leadership, in case you missed it, is usually strong-arm types with very cozy relationsips with the Dim party elite. I won't even bring up the embedded mob connections.

 

Evidence to prove his reading is accurate - 4 years of college and 40 years work experience.
Evidence to prove your (or David Madland's, more accurately) reading is accurate - None

BTW, it correlates even better to a function of the national debt.

 

They are the representatives of the people that work in this country. Firemen. teachers, nurses, civil servants, etc. This statement, "Unions are comprised of captive workers who typically don't have a choice but to contribute a chunk of their income to the collective" is total nonsense and you have absolutely no way of proving any such thing. You have an opinion but that does not make it a fact. Why do you hate teachers, firemen, policemen, nurses, and the rest of the hardworking people of this country? What have they ever done to you? Haven't they lost enough over the last 30 years? What level of poverty will make you happy?

 

Prove it!

 

Be careful dr moen,phd...you are beginning to sink to the depths of a tomc with silly posts like this.
I was a union member for 5 1/2 years, in fact I was a Teamsters shop steward, so I do have some first hand knowledge. In school, during an internship, I sat in on several rounds of employer-union contract negotiations. My brother is a cop & he believes the union is a joke & only serves to protect poor performers. My wife was a teacher (now in school to become a nurse). So now what? Saying I hate these people would be as silly as me claiming you hate your son for pimping him out to an adult.

 

Please hold your breath while I relook everything up. BTW, still waiting for any proof that David Madland's chart is meaningful.

 

Even if you normalize the numbers, the percentages are still off, do the math. BTW, how do you propose to prove that the entire 12% decline in middle class share of income all ended up in the lower class. After all that is your point, is it not?

The truth is that these two things are not directed related and no fantasy graph will prove otherwise.

 

Couldn't that graph also be labelled..."As middle class income shrinks, union membership decreases" ? I am both middle class income (my definition not the politician's) and a union member and my union dues would get cut before insurance, retirement, food, etc if push came to shove.

 

That is just the problem. moen feels everyone else has to prove him wrong, but he is right because he says so.

 

But apparently you do. Where's your chart to prove that being a wealthy elitist and well above the middle class ranks you as greedy? Did you know, for example, that 7 of the 10 richest people in Congress are Democrats?

"Lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain on the types of lies.

Know anybody even moderately successful who works 40 hours or less? Doubt it. Know any union members who work 40 hours or more? Again, I doubt it. I spent time in a union, and all they did was take my dues, blame the boss, and guarantee that I couldn't work more than 35 hours. Thanks for nuthin'

 

The republicans should have lost, what they are doing is a disgrace and an all out attack on the American middle class. The only problem was they had democrats running against them

 

I think that the con's tactics are disgraceful. They are right up Karl Rove's alley which is a dark and morally vacant side street. I understand how low they are willing to sink to win but I have to ask as a voter how low would you have to be to vote for someone like that? I mean, aren't you pretty much endorsing the lowering of the ethics and morality and even the American sense of right and wrong by supporting people that would pull these kinds of dirty tricks? It kind of reminds me of a woman that makes a play for a married man never bothering to think about the fact that if he'll cheat on his wife, why wouldn't he cheat on you?
I guess what I'm saying is that the cons of Wisconsin are a bunch of home-wrecking sluts.

 

When you speak of disgraceful tactics, do you mean like the entire democratic delegation leaving the state in order to stop the legislative process?

So now, anyone whose political alignment does not coincide with your own is ethically and morally questionable? Dirty tricks, like a government union making political contributions to buy the votes of democratic politicians for years in order to strike sweetheart deals during the collective bargaining process. Outside the government, that is called bribery.

I have heard you harp on the fact that the republicans did not give enough notice prior to the vote. Let me ask you a few questions. If the democrats had not gone into hiding, who would have won the vote? If the democrats were given enough notice in order to return, who would have won the vote?

Again, outside the government, if you don't show up for your job for weeks without proper notice, you get terminated. Every democratic delegate should have lost their seat due to their actions.

 

It seems to me that there has been a movement to destory the middle class and lower the level of democracy that exisits in this nation. It started with political correctness where one can not speak an open mind but has to follow the doctrine of the media and or far left/right to the killing of real estate value where the working and middle class have their greatest holdings to the attack upon the unions which are really the only voice for the working man and provided a middle class life style for the working man/women.