Marines Discharge Soldier Who Criticized Obama

What is your opinion of this soldier being discharged? Do you think a discharge was appropriate or do you think something less severe (e.g., reduction in rank, reprimand, etc.) was warranted? Do you think any disciplinary action whatsoever was appropriate? Do you think the Pentagon should limit First Amendment rights for service members on active duty?

Marine Corps discharges sergeant for Facebook posts critical of Obama


SAN DIEGO – The Marine Corps said Wednesday it has decided to discharge a sergeant for criticizing President Barack Obama on Facebook.

The Corps said Sgt. Gary Stein will be given an other-than-honorable discharge for violating Pentagon policy limiting speech of service members.

The San Diego-area Marine has served nearly 10 years in the Marine Corps. He has said he was exercising his free-speech rights.

The discharge will mean he loses all benefits.

A federal judge previously denied a request to block military discharge proceedings against Stein, who called Obama an enemy on Facebook.

U.S. District Judge Marilyn Huff ruled then that the military has the right to respond to Stein's online comments in a case that has called into question the Pentagon's policies regarding social media and the limits regarding the speech of active duty military personnel.

Attorney J. Mark Brewer told Huff the entire process violates the First Amendment, which federal courts have the right to uphold.

Huff disagreed, calling Stein's postings "truly troubling." Service members have had their speech limited since the Civil War, especially if their comments are believed to disrupt good order and discipline.

The judge pointed out Stein's March 1 comments on a Facebook page used by Marine Corps meteorologists in which the sergeant stated, "Screw Obama and I will not follow all orders from him."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/25/marine-corps-discharges-sergeant-who-posted-facebook-posts-critical-obama/#ixzz1t5SG0JF​

 

"I will not follow orders from him" pretty much sums it up, don't you think? Although the President (any President mind you) is a politician, he is also the "highest ranking" person in the military. As such, the soldier was insubordinate, and was punished for it.

Freedom of speech is a general principle, but is not absolute. There are exclusions or restrictions that apply to it, and rightly so. This case is an example of what you are not allowed to say or do in regards to superior officers in the military.

The same or similar is true in business. You would be foolish to write about how you would refuse to do what your boss tells you to do on a social networking site like Facebook or Twitter. That is, saying you are refusing to do the work you were hired to do. That's a dumb way to get fired, just as it was a dumb way for the marine to get discharged. He was foolish and he paid the price for his stupidity.

Now, do I think ousting him was appropriate? Not really, I would have imprisoned him. He probably was for a time, but as a sentence, I would have thought a few years in prison would be warranted for insubordination in the military than just the dishonorable discharge alone.

But, then again, the military ruled on it and that's that, and they know more about the situation and rules than I do so I'm not going to make a fuss about it.

 

And let's be clear here, this is the military we're talking about, where discipline is achieved by beating any thoughts of insubordination out of you from basic training on. The chain of command is gospel, and isn't to be questioned, a superior gives you an order to do something, you damn well better do it, no matter what you think of the order or the superior, you keep your mouth shut and obey. Period.

 

To paraphrase the saying, free speech isn't necessarily free. If this soldier or "warrior" as I think we are encouraged to refer to them now wants to publicly state that he will not obey orders from his commander-in-chief no one is putting a gag in his mouth. I would tend to be choosy about which of Obama's (or for sure a George Bush's) orders I'd follow as well. Which is one reason I'm not in the military. It seems obvious that this Stein guy shouldn't be in the military either. If he had said that he disagreed with Obama's politics or that he simply didn't like Obama that would be different, but that wasn't the case. He's lucky we're at peace and not involved in war anywhere. If we were he might be taken out and shot.

 

I agree, if he hadn't specifically stated he would not follow Obama's orders, if he had instead stated only his dislike of Obama, I would expect the military to punish him with no more than a warning and possibly some distasteful chore like KP... which doesn't seem that bad to me... make it pumping out the latrines, that job sucks lol

 

They came down hard on him after he said something along the lines that it was ok to burn korans. From my understanding of the story this guy was given warnings. This guy got to caught up with being a leader of a movement in his own mind on facebook that he forgot that he was suppose to be a marine first. The Obama comments are no big deal for he did not disobey an order only mouthed off. It was his pattern of behavior and his disregard of the saftey of his brothers overseas that after numerous attempts to deal with him that they delt him out. This really is not so much of a free speech issue. Lets face it on a smaller scale if a policeman or teacher posted it was ok to burn a koran on facebook after repeated warnings of inappropriate behavior becoming their position then they too might face dismissal. Problem for the marine was this is all he knows and is who he is. He was a lifer who lost his way of life by reckless actions supported by people who really did not care about him.

 

The least democratic institution in this country is the military. Freedom of speech is not part of the deal the military offers when you sign up. Nor are many of the other rights and privileges we enjoy as citizens of this country. They can fight for them but they don't necessarily get to enjoy them while doing it. They don't call the president the Commander-in-chief for nothing. So having said all of that, did this guy get a fair shake? meh! Don't care one way or the other.

 

I think Andy pretty much nailed this one.

He screwed up BIG TIME and will now pay for it.

It IS very interesting when one thinks about it though. I figure most of us here were all around before we could just jump on a computer and share our thoughts and opinions for all the world to see.

Back in the day Sgt. Stein would have had to take his comments to a different media such as a newspaper or TV. Today he could do it on the computer and did so. For all to see.

It was not a wise move and it cost him. I'm sorry he made such a bad decision but I'm not sorry for him. I would hope he knew what the repercussions could be and if he didn't he missed something in training.

Think about it. How many career soldiers have seen drastic changes in the Commander in Chief and just kept their mouth shut because that's the rules. You know it when you go in. It's not a surprise.

Unless the rules change that still applies. He screwed up and now regrets it.
Hindsight is 20/20.

 

I agree with Andy's comments with one exception he should not have lost any benefits he accrued due to his service. That in my opinion was taking it too far

 

I don't go on Facebook much, but occasionally I have seen posts by people who appeared to be in the military that said some pretty outrageous things about Obama. I had wondered what the reaction from their superiors would be if they knew about the posts, but again, I was uncertain if the posters were actually in the military. I guess I got my answer lol