I don't want to start a fight here but I would like to put this question out to the educated. Why does my school have to change its nickname to appease the NCAA but the federal government can use the likeness of Native Americans on its coinage? Especially since so many can’t even pronounce the name correctly. I like the Sac and I want it to stay. I also like the UND Fighting Sioux. Apparently the "Fighting" part is offensive and derogatory and therefore the NCAA With its all mighty power is forcing my school to change. The part that really busts my chops is we do not have a mascot. We don't have a Tomahawk Chop or anything like that. We don't dress up in native garb and pretend to be Indians. All we do is wear apparel which has a symbol very similar to the image on the Indian head cent. The only difference is our image is of a Sioux warrior which was drawn and depicted by a Sioux artist. Take a look for yourself (see attached pic.) The image in the picture is all there is and the nickname is spelled out. Tell me what is derogatory and abusive about that? Well I guess I really have no say since I am just a pompous white bigot who is as ignorant as the white men that stole the land in the first place. I mean what are the odds that I could be proud of the Sioux name and heritage. There must be no way in h*ll that I could, or should feel a connection to area I live or the people of that area. Nope can't respect them or honor them. Heck I'm surprised they haven't passed a law forbidding us from thinking about them.
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I feel your pain as well morgan, a decade or so ago when i was in highschool, we had an area school who used the same type of Indian motif. The difference was that they had a routine before a certain sporting event where they would come out in indian type garb, and yes a tomahawk, and do a little 'war-dance' to hype up the team. (Not The NCAA - but some anti-discrimination group) went after them back then saying the dance and the use of the tomahawk was offensive. they didnt care (at the time) about the use of the indian face or war feathers for the school sporting emblem. At the time, just as you are feeling, most people were upset that they were ebing told not to use the seemingly harmless icon. There were no deragatory remarks that were ever made, no slurs, and alot of the people in the area at that time had been in that area for generations and were, in some small part, part of the tirbe they were representing. At the time all was said was noone could use the tomahawk or do the dance or wear the headress. I see now just how far democracy goes. 1st - take a little bit away. 2nd - when people get accustomed to that lost bit, take a little bit more away. 3rd - take even more away after more time passes. In the end what are you left with? - in this particualr case, you are left with every high school in the nation using the same politically correct, non denominational, non race, ethnic, creed or color oriented name, mascot and iconic motiff. In Democracy, you have 49.9% ****ing and moaning about the other 50.1%. Im not saying we need to become a comunist nation, but we need to devise a way to make democracy work, without taking away everything that makes an individual (or a highschool) unique.
Welcome to the world of Miles Brand my friends. He almost single handedly destroyed most atheletic programs at Indiana University before quitting to take the NCAA helm. The man is out of touch with the world and really doesn't care what anyone else thinks as long as he thinks he is the KING! He tried to destroy Bobby Knight and the sad part is the two are almost exactly alike. Bobby is out spoken and you know just exactly what you have and are up against. Miles Brand is just the opposite, behind your back, I am going to win no matter what, no matter what I have to do, because I think I am God type of guy. I will take Bobby Knight any day of the week as the politician acting Miles Brand is one to continueously try and fix that which is NOT broke in the name of justifying his meager exsistence. I almost croaked when I found out he went to the helm of the NCAA but thanked them at the same time for getting him out of Indiana University. The odd part is that Miles Brand was anti-atheletics and he goes to the NCAA? What a joke and now you are seeing the end results. This guy needs to be humbled a bit and stand in a food line for a few years as that is what it would take to bring him down off his pedestal! Please somebody give him a job that will get him entirely OUT OF INDIANA!!!
The NCCA is full of bull in every aspect of its functioning. We all know that college football and basketball are billion dollar industries when every ticket, jersey, TV and radio fee is factored in yet if a coach buys a student a plane ticket to visit his dying mom he gets fired. As for the Indian factor, the part of FLa that I live in is filled with "native americans" but they either call themselves Indians or just their tribal name and are proud of it. As for Florida State, the NCAA backed off quick for the Seminole Tribe does not only back the use of their name but gets a percentage of everything that Florida State sells that uses their name or symbol of. Now I always liked the Fighting Irish but the Trojans are my favorite brand, I mean team. Go USC!
The PC crowd really has their work cut out for them. Native American blood and culture is pervasive throughout America. I suspect that most Americans who have deep ancestral roots in early America have some Indian blood in them. Americans from Oklahoma and parts of the South are very likely to have some Cherokee or Choctaw. Thousands of Americans with family roots in the northeast have Algonquin or Irroquoi blood. In the West, the mixing may not have been as pervasive, but there are Mexican-Americans and other folks from Latin America. I suspect that most Mexicans are more Indian than Spanish. I wish the PC crowd good luck with their "ethnic cleansing". Most Americans are proud of their mixed-racial (Indian) heritage. The names are everywhere.
Well, as someone who is part native american, let me say that I am not remotely offended by any of this, and I don't see what the big hullabaloo is. Then again, I know nearly nothing of my native american heritage, just that my grandfather was 100% native american.
I can understand removing names like "Redskins" (even though colleges with this name have already voluntarily changed - see the Miami Redhawks), but tribal names are not offensive. Maybe mascots running around in warpaint & doing dances might be offensive to some, but I've never heard of anyone raising a stink over it. The NCAA doesn't sponsor the post-season in Division I-A football anyways, so they have no bearing there. The schools could simply create their own form of post-season without NCAA sponsorship if they wanted to in other areas. Oh yeah, and GO FROGS!!
I have Creek, Choctaw and Cherokee ancestors, as well as Irish and Scot. Perhaps I should raise a stink with the NCAA about schools that depict the supposed pugilistic tendancies of the Irish people. (Please note that my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek). This latest ploy by the PC crowd in the NCAA is pure, unadulterated fecal matter from a domesticated male bovine.
Wow you hit the nail on the head. Your view is exactly how I originally thought when I heard about this rule. The basis of the argument here is the South Dakota tribes are against us using the name. The North Dakota tribe said no problem. But when the NCAA decided we were offensive and abusive with how we used the name the ND tribe started a flip flop stance that no one, not even USA Today, can nail down. The problem with the ruling is we can not host mid season mini tournaments unless we cover the 2000 or so Sioux heads in the hockey arena. This is really damaging to our stadium revenues and our local economy. No tourney equals no teams, no parents, and no sporting event tourists. I can also understand removing names like redskins and such. They at some time depicted or described the tribes in a derogatory manner. I can not see how the Sioux can say that the use of the word "fighting" (yes the controversy is all about a word) is such a derogatory and abusive thing. I seem to remember reading about how many of the army generals and commanders of the day revered the ability of the Sioux and their tribal leaders, men such as Sitting Bull. Yes Sitting Bull, a man renowned for his unyielding resistance to white oppression. I man who organized numerous sub tribes under one Sioux nation to resist the increasing pressure of the US army. A Native American who would not lie down and be conformed but instead stood proud of who he was and what he stood for. The very person our Sioux head was pattered after. Please do not miss understand, there are negative repercussions that have resulted from the use of the name. Back when we played an annual football game with NDSU for possession of the Nickel trophy (A 2-foot diameter Buffalo Nickel) there were some horrid things being said, all the things rival schools normally say. These are things I am sure a child of a Sioux family could easily feel confused by. For this reason I feel that a state funded institution should change its name to a more non-controversial one. I also agree that it should be done soon, because I am SICK ... and ...TIRED ...of providing a reason for these “Ignorants” to get free air time so they can whine. The part that upsets me is who the he** gave the NCAA the right to deny our freedom of speech. BTW since someone mentioned Florida, here’s my take on that. They backed off Florida because the booster had sufficient funds to bankrupt the NCAA. I believe this is why they chose to come after us for no apparent good reason. By toppling the little guy you lay down a precedent and gain experience which will be used to topple the big one.
Without taking sides or participating in this thread's political correctness debate, let me just state a direct answer to the title question of this thread: The administrations of the member colleges formed an organization to govern their inter-collegiate sports activities. They (generally the university/college presidents) then voted to elect a board of directors and officers of that organization; who in turn recommended various rules and regulations to the members schools. Once the presidents approved them (usually be majority but I believe in a few situaqtions by two-thirds vote) they became the rules and regulations governing college sports. In other words, the method used to determine that a passing or running "point after" is good for two points, while a placekick is only good for one, was the same method used to determine (among other things) where the three-point line should be painted on a basketball court, the parameters of the infield fly rule, and what team names and mascots may be used by the member institutions. Democracy (absolutely including the "tyranny of the majority") in action!
Roy- That makes way to much sense. I guess your right. We put them in charge. The implied meaning of this question is "Who convinced the NCAA that they can place restrictions on the schools freedom of speech." I know this is a moot point because membership in the NCAA is not mandatory but I feel that the wrong organization is playing Mr. Police. The state government or federal government should be the ones imposing a ruling such as this. In fact I can't believe the Bureau of Indian Affairs hasn't made a ruling on this issue.
