Supernatural Events ?

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Does anyone have any juicy stories to share?

Is there a connection between religious spiritual beliefs and apparently "secular" supernatural events?

Can one supernatural event occur in a vacuum, or does the existence of a single documented event mean that all other events have to be considered seriously?

Is there a spiritual world which is separate from the physical world?

Can alleged supernatural events be studied scientifically?

I have a few interesting stories and an opinion which I will hold until others break the ice. :hatch:

 

I don't believe in the supernatural, though I enjoy stories (whether intentional fiction or allegedly true.) I've never had an experience that I don't think could be explained without reference to the supernatural, and I've never seen decent scientific evidence supporting it.

One good question, though, is just where lies the line between "supernatural" and "science." Someone might consider a previously undiscovered natural force to be supernatural.

But I don't believe in the existence of ghosts, ESP, telekinesis, psychic abilities, extraterrestrial visitors, Bigfoot.

 

I agree with Bill. I like the supernatural movies, but I don't really believe in it. Show me one documented supernatural event that can't logically be explained.

 

Oh, I believe in ghosts. Heck, we've got one running around here. The whole family has caught glimpses of him. A U.S. Calvary soldier, blue suit, hat, and all. He's not scary or frightening. The animals get spooked though...

Bone

 

I think someone once said that science is magic to those that can't comprehend.

 

Our science is not a finished project, there is always more to learn, therefore we have supernatural events. The area of quantum physics is so wierd that I would call the entire field a supernatural event.

 

I think a lot of these UFO sightings are really demons coming to earth. If you study some of the stories about UFO's this makes sense. *putting on asbestos suit*

CraigG

 

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha LOL LOL LOL! At least I know what the "G" stands for now. But I do respect your opinion Craig.

 

I don't understand what you mean. What does the G stand for???

 

I am not talking about alleged UFOs, Big Foot, or any of those unexplained corporeal "observations".

I think any large number of observations or statements can be analyzed "scientifically". The big questions come with interpretation of the available evidence. For instance, are there consistent similarities in alleged supernatural observations? Can some significant part of an alleged event be proven to be true and documented properly. What happens when these events are analyzed like a body of forensic criminal evidence?

How do you interpret incredible statements made by credible people. That is the big issue. If a person or group of individuals can be shown to be sane and not subject to fantacies, and those individuals have histories of sober and rational behaviors, does that make them believable? When a solid, credible, person makes an incredible statement, does that statement somehow nullify a lifetime of rational behavior and intelligent communication?

It seems as though many credible adults have joined the ranks of kookdom by virtue of simply making the odd observation.

 

If someone I knew and respected made some outlandish statement, that would cause me to look more closely at the other things they've said and done. I wouldn't treat them like a kook, which, strangely enough, is the way most of you guys treat me!

 

Well.. one example I can think of is the Catholic church has allowed the scientific community to examine the Shroud of Tourin (the burial relic cloth believed to be the death shroud of Jesus). Despite carbon dating (which supposedly dates it to mid 13th century), and numerous other tests, the primary scientists still are not convinced it's a forgery. The fact that it was in a major fire in the 15th century would add 1300 years to it's age.

Probably not what your getting at.. but interesting non the less.

On the other hand I believe it was Galileo (Copernicus?) that through diligent research and observation believed and published his views on the sun being the center of the solar system. This was an affront to the Catholic church who knew in their heart of hearts that the world was flat, and the solar system revolved around the earth. I believe Galileo died a penniless kook at the time, after his excommunication.. (sorry if my facts stink)

 

Well quickdog, I knew you were going to post this thread before you posted it in my past life. Now how is that for proof.

 

The Shroud of Turin is not Jesus' burial shroud, because the person that was wearing that never rose from the dead.
Galileo was forced to recant his views, else they would have burned him or killed him some way. You picked an interesting example here. Since the Catholic Church was founded by the Roman Empire, which had the Sun as its main god; you would expect that they would think everything revolved around the sun, but they didn't.

CraigG

 

It seems to me that bigfoot and UFOs fall into the same category--incredible statements made by credible people.

I think everyone--even the most rational, observant, down-to-earth person--can be a victim of delusion, self-deception, illusion, and hoax. In many instances, the way we fall victim to these things is remarkably consistent (because of our shared culture and our shared psychology), giving rise to consistency in false perceptions.

The very hard part is trying to figure out how to tell reality from false perceptions. That's what science is for. Observe, test, re-evaluate. Observe, test, re-evaluate. Keep looking for consistency and looking for holes in your theory.

 

I think you're right, bluegill. Even people like FDR, Carter, Nixon, and Kennedy reported seeing UFO's.

 

Ronald Reagan had the most documented and celebrated observation. He was allegedly flying in Air Force One. UFOs can be easily explained in most cases.

I am most interested in premonitions and precognitive experiences. There have been some very interesting historical accounts.

 

The Paranormal and parapsycology was very interesting to me in my past life.
If one is really interested with the subject I recommend that you read
"Crack in the Cosmic Egg".

 

FAMOUS DREAMS

Famous dreams are often famous premonitions.


Hitler : Hitler had a dream during the first world war that caused him to jump out of his trench into no mans land moments before a shell stuck and blew up his trench killing everyone.

Sitting Bull : In the run up to the battle of the Little BigHorn in 1876 Sitting Bull danced himself into the real world. He dreamt that soldiers were falling upside down from the sky into the indian camp. As they fell he heard a voice cry "I give you these because they have no ears". Sitting bull took it as a sign that the battle would be won and prepared for war. The soldiers were given up to him because they would not listen to the great spirit.

Abraham Lincoln : Lincoln dreamt days before his assasination of great cries coming from the East Wing of the Whitehouse. When he investigated he was told by soldiers on guard that they weeping for the president who had been assassinated. Days later his body was held in state in the East wing so people could pay respect.

Nils Bohr a danish scientist who dreamt about "atomic structure" and then came up with the theories we use today in chemistry about the atoms and their structure, and the way they bond to each other.. and the sub atomic particals.. (supposedly really left brained stuff).

Carl Jung Had a lucid dream vision. That all of europe was engulfed in a great flood. The water came right up to the mountains of Switzerland. Thosands of people drowned. The water then turned to blood. Just months later the Great War began in August 1914.

 

That's more like it.

I am facinated by premonitions because I had one, just one 49 years ago. As a child I had a terrific nightmare that casued me to jump up screaming form bed. I remeber it vividly even today. The room, the bed, my mother, everything. I had not had a dream like that before, or since.

I saw a screaming boy's face, brown-skinned, with a jagged bright (yellow light) Mark of Zorro across his face. It scared me to death, and of course woke me up. I described the dream to my mother. It was about midnight.

The face was mine! Not in a mirror image, but a photographic image (not reversed). I saw myself as others see me, not as I do in a mirror.

Three days later, I nearly killed myself by running down a big hill, lost my footing, and smashed my face on a big rock. It laid my face open and I bled like a stuck-hog. After being taken to the emergency hospital and receiving 35 stiches, I looked exactly like the figure in my dream three days earlier. The accident occured in October 1956, in Alhambra, California, at Cameron Young's houes. It seems most of the bad things that have ever happened to me have happened in October. Uncanny.

I rarely have nightmares, but do routinely dream in color with much detail. I can normally direct my dreams the way I want. I have never dreamed anything like that image of 1956. I have never seen anyhting like that during waking hours either. It was as bright as a phosphorus explosion. It scared the bejezus out of me.