Hamas vs Fatah

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/madrassas.html

 

http://www.mrbrklyn.com/resources/MUSLIMSCHO.html

 

With so much personal history tied up in the matter can you be objective?

 

And after hundreds of years of Arabs and Jews at each other's throats, suddenly it is Americas ethical responsibility to join in the stupidity that clearly has no end in sight. Explain to me again why I should care about either groups superstitions and religious fanatic belief system? This, you can not do!

In this country a scant 150 years ago entire families of settlers were wiped out by American Indians as they attempted to colonize Indian lands. Are we still killing Indians for their land and are they still killing us for the land they originally owned? The answer is NO! Why, because we and they are not fanatics who believe that God is on their side and basterdize(sp. to keep in) his name with every violent revenge killing and suicide attack. That is the difference between your and their type of belief system and a sane one. It's not a matter of what you have printed in some book, it's a matter of what you do in the name of your faith that really determines what you are as a people. So far, I'm not impressed.

 

So I guess you proved that both sides hate each other, kill each other, kill innocents, claim that its their land, claim they are right, wont live with each other...nothing new. The zionist are not innocent in all this, this is clear as day...I am not saying the arabs are, just know the history of this and realize the role that israel had in bringing this down upon themselves, you treat a group like dogs long enough they will bite.Zionist had been moving to this area long before the creation of israel by the western powers. There are endless stories of innocents and whole families killed at the hands of zionists...

zionists have been planning to expell the arabs, arabs wont recognize israel etc..etc..ad nauseum. I say fight it out and get back to me when one side kills off the other and we can have a little party for the winner, just stop using my tax money to do it with, kill each other in your eternal hate filled battles with your own money. I dont support either side to be honest. I see that the west is partly to blame with colonization, showing favorites, etc...but I certainly dont care anymore and havent for some time save that israel is the #1 welfare nation sucking off my tax teet and the sooner we ween them the better.

I have had enough debates about this to know that each side will typify the other as the living embodiment of evil and will say 'look what they have done to me, this is why we do what we do' for every jewish sob story you will have a palestinian one...and each has plenty of evidence. There is more than enough evidence that the zionist planned from the very beginning to drive off the arabs, kill them, and keep a small perpetual minority to do their labor...plenty of evidence of hate. There is more than enough evidence to show that many muslims are anti-semetic, would see every jew dead, attacked the jews the second they stepped foot in this disputed area, and refuse to ever recognize israel....plenty of hate. All over a tiny stretch of land...it all seems very insane and the less america has to do with it the better if you ask me. I think if there is a god he must be sickened by the both. I would just say give fair warning and just nuke the whole area and then they have nothing to fight about but without doubt they would simply return to fight over the crater.

Israel has an estimated population of 7 million...we paid them 4 billion in US tax dollars (this is just one year)...thats like giving every Israeli citizen 571 USD. We even paid much of the money to compensate the settlers who made the land grab (as they were told, take it now or the palestinian dogs will get it) and recently had to leave...they recieved roughly 100,000+ dollars each. The funny thing is up until recently we were paying the palestinians as well...good lord what a mess.

 

I have always loved this quote that was posted during some bickering session on another forum regarding some war or another as each side blamed the other for all the problems:

Humans are factional by nature, they gather in tribes and begin taking anything and everything they can for their team killing those who oppose them and will always find a reason to continue this behaviour. They have fought each other from the beginning of recorded history and will do so right until the very end. The last 2 humans will die with their hands wrapped around each others throats. This is just my personal opinion...the ones who want peace will be trampled under foot during a sit-in peace protest.

 

It's sad all the way around. How about that 'Holocaust never Happened' conference in Tehran?

Merry Christmas
Ben

 

truly pathetic

 

I agree, I don't see how David Duke could be allowed back into the country after attending and speaking at such a scandalous affair.

Ben

 

to be honest, IMO, thats what makes our country great, people have the right to be idiots and say stupid things. In Germany there are people in prison for denying the holocaust which...however moronic, is their right to do. I dont think you need to jail the person as most people see them for what they are...much like the 9/11 conspiracy theorists who say the Jews where responsible...or even better that the US government set it up....or the 'god hates fags' website.

 

Sadly, I've had to deal with these nuts personally. Check my profile.

Ben

 

I see you ride... I ride as well...nothing fancy, I ride a Honda ACE 1100.

 

Thats not exactly what I meant. I ride with the Patriot Guard who shield the families from those who protest at such solemn events.

 

I think Aiden is flying over to vacation with these nut cases.

 

Oh, I know, I just noticed though that you ride

 

Because, silly man, its not like you describe it. There is nothing superstitious about the real historical criminal behavior that has been perpetrated against the Jews, most often by people saying EXACTLY the same things your saying, only to descover that those fires of racism and hatred boomerang back at all free people.
this comes down to, "hey as long as they are killing you, maybe they won't came after me".

That would be historically unsupportable.

Let me stick another secret in that ear of yours, Mr Moen...

The world today is getting very very small. And everytime that happens, some major war happens where Free people have to defend themselves against ideologies which are facist and racist in nature. Not only does propagation of freedom in Iraq, and Lebanon directly relate to your personal security and freedom at home, but the preservation of such Freedom for Jews (not to mention Kurds, Indians and South Americans) directly will correlate with the survivial of the world in the coming century.

Your failure to comprehend even the basics of World politics in the 21st Century is likely to get my family exterminated. Not that concerns you at all since I'm just a dumb Jew who has a family history in the US for over 140 years.

Ruben

 

The Jews in the Middle East REALLY REALLY are innocent. That is clear as day. And living with the Arabs in the Jewish homeland was always a reality to be accepted. And that is historicaly accurate since the Arabs illegally invaded in the 700's.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3560238467536024101&q=Jewish Nova
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6714898550028446993&q=Jewish History

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

<<During the Roman period, the Iudaea Province (including Samaria) covered most of Israel and the Palestinian territories. But following the Bar Kokhba rebellion, as part of a program of ethnic cleansing, the Romans tried to erase the Jewish connection to the land of Judea, and renamed it Syria Palaestina (Latin: Syria Palaestina) (including Judea) and Samaria.[2]>>

 

How is it not as I describe it? You don't actually say. I don't even know what the term "real historical criminal behavior" means. It sounds sort of subjective to me. I know the history of the Jewish people. I am a big fan of history. I know that the Jews and the Arabs have been fighting over the same piece of dirt forever and that they both use their respect superstitions(religions) that are somehow supposed to justify their claims to the very dirt, rock, and mud they call holy. The Jews are anything but innocent in this conflict except maybe in their own minds. They have perpetrated as many atrocities in the past and present as were perpetrated on them. That's the madness that I don't wish to be a part of as you attempt to use the same logic as the US government used on the American people during Vietnam. You couldn't sound more motivated by self-interest. History isn't necessarily a harbinger in future events. It can be but in most cases it isn't. History is often used as a fear generating tool to motivate groups into actions they would find absurd without considering that something similar had happened in the past. What is ironic is that they never stop to ask themselves why if it happened back then should it reoccur today.

This outlying statement doesn't seem relevant to anything you've posted. Maybe you could elaborate.

You might as well call me Mr. 1305...

Well thanks for whispering that little secret in my ear. You might want to consider a tic-tac next time.:mouth:
But seriously, you haven't supported your assertion with any historical facts. The world is only getting small in a perceptual way. If it turns out that the Jews, the Kurds , the Indians, or the South Americans are less free for some reason, there will definitely be less freedom in the world as a whole. This is obvious, but what isn't so obvious is that my freedom may be at risk because two groups somewhere else in the world decide to go at each other for centuries old grievences. Freedom in this country has continued to grow throughout all the conflicts of the past 200 years. And it's not because we have been involved in every conflict that came along. We are a young country and we have no business getting involved in old world conflicts. Let them kill each other off and we'll deal with the winner if necessary.

You failure to understand that I'd defend THIS country and IT'S citizens to the death if necessary but I am not willing to fight your ancestors battles. I don't sterotype Jews or any other group. If I like you, it is because of who you are as a person. If I don't like you, it is because of who you are as a person also. Being black, Jewish, catholic, or any other group affilation is unimportant. Your last statement is an attempt to push guilt buttons I do not have. I have nothing to feel guilty about.

 

Maybe when you stop looking backwards you can actually move forwards.