Hamas vs Fatah

Now wait a minute, God told ME that the land of Canaan was given to me. :mouth: But seriously, this argument has been used throughout time to justify any number of military conquests. And suddenly is truth why...?

 

Its insane to use scripture to justify anything. It is the reason for all this mess in the first place. To use religon to justify perpetual war and killing is sick...In my opinion of course...

 

Well, the Gernam's and the Arabs thought so.

 

Its a waste of breath. He thinks that if not for the Jews that the Islamofacist bigots would be benign and chatitable.

 

Its not that I don't read what you right, I just don't read it to carefully because it doesn't really merit indepth thought.

Ruben

 

Um - your wrong. Look up the historical facts about the murder of Jews and Jewish population figures over say, just the last 1500 years and come back again for a mature adult like conversation. BTW Moen, your second premise about the elephant in the room is an bigoted pretext. Maybe you should take a long look at that and figure out why your a bigot with regard to Jews.

Ruben

 

I disagree and so would someone who truely knows me. Calling me a bigot doesn't make it so. I ask you again: Why do people hate the Jews? What are the reasons. If you can't answer this question or even consider it, you might want to look at your own motivations. I truely don't know what the answer is but you might.

 

I guess if you disagree with someone, they aren't "adult" enough for "your" conversation. You can dismiss my question if it causes you some internal conflicts but the question remains unanswered. I figured you counld be some insight into this situation but your mental road blocks prevent you from even considering the possible answers. Maybe an elder member of your community might be more thoughtful and patient with their knowledge than someone of your youth and inexperience. I'm probably asking the right question of the wrong person. Sorry you weren't up the the task. I guess you could always ask a senior member of your family and get back to me. Keep me posted and remember; Never stop learning.

 

Go and learn..............


3:5 And when Haman saw that Mordecai bowed not, nor did him reverence, then was Haman full of wrath.

3:6 And he thought scorn to lay hands on Mordecai alone; for they had shewed him the people of Mordecai: wherefore Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus, even the people of Mordecai.

3:7 In the first month, that is, the month Nisan, in the twelfth year of king Ahasuerus, they cast Pur, that is, the lot, before Haman from day to day, and from month to month, to the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar.

3:8 And Haman said unto king Ahasuerus, There is a certain people scattered abroad and dispersed among the people in all the provinces of thy kingdom; and their laws are diverse from all people; neither keep they the king's laws: therefore it is not for the king's profit to suffer them.

3:9 If it please the king, let it be written that they may be destroyed: and I will pay ten thousand talents of silver to the hands of those that have the charge of the business, to bring it into the king's treasuries.

3:10 And the king took his ring from his hand, and gave it unto Haman the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, the Jews' enemy.

3:11 And the king said unto Haman, The silver is given to thee, the people also, to do with them as it seemeth good to thee.

3:12 Then were the king's scribes called on the thirteenth day of the first month, and there was written according to all that Haman had commanded unto the king's lieutenants, and to the governors that were over every province, and to the rulers of every people of every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language; in the name of king Ahasuerus was it written, and sealed with the king's ring.

 

ditto...and its 'write' not 'right' though I AM right You dont even read what others have to say, you are deaf to everything but your own ranting. There is no need for further attempts to discuss something with a fanatic like yourself.

You complain about bigots but you seem to be one of the biggest ones here...Cetainly I have made it clear that I think BOTH jews and arabs hold fault in this whole afair...not just jews. It seems to me like you would see all arabs exterminated because some people thousands of years ago said you should have a little chunk of land...you are beyond reason, any criticism of Israel makes a person a racist.

You ignore the fact that I and others here are also critical of the Arabs...of ANYONE who thinks its a good idea to kill and destroy on such feeble premise...trying to talk reason to people quoting texts thousands of years old regarding 'holy lands' and divine right is a losing battle as they are not grounded in reality in the first place. Again...that goes for both radical Jews and radical Islam...It comes as no shock that you kill each other off as you do and will continue to do so...sad part is you drag us all into it with you...thanks

 

Not a bigot necessarily but a true believe most certainly. See if any of this sounds familar.

True-believer syndrome is an expression coined by M. Lamar Keene to describe an apparent cognitive disorder characterized by believing in the reality of paranormal or supernatural events after one has been presented overwhelming evidence that the event was fraudulently staged. Keene is a reformed phony psychic who exposed religious racketeering—to little effect, apparently. Phony faith healers, psychics, channelers, televangelist miracle workers, etc., are as abundant as ever.

Keene believes that "the true-believer syndrome is the greatest thing phony mediums have going for them" because "no amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie." That those suffering from true-believer syndrome are consciously lying to themselves hardly seems likely, however. Perhaps from the viewpoint of a fraud and hoaxer, the mark who is told the truth but who continues to have faith in you must seem to believe what he knows is a lie. Yet, this type of self-deception need not involve lying to oneself. To lie to oneself would require admission that one believes what one knows is false. This does not seem logically possible. One can't believe or disbelieve what one knows. (Belief is distinct from belief in, which is a matter of trust rather than belief.) Belief and disbelief entail the possibility of error; knowledge implies that error is beyond reasonable probability. I may have overwhelming evidence that a "psychic" is a phony, yet still believe that paranormal events occur. I may be deceiving myself in such a case, but I don't think it is correct to say I am lying to myself.

It is possible that those suffering from true-believer syndrome simply do not believe that the weight of the evidence before them revealing fraud is sufficient to overpower the weight of all those many cases of supportive evidence from the past. The fact that the supportive evidence was largely supplied by the same person exposed as a fraud is suppressed. There is always the hope that no matter how many frauds are exposed, at least one of the experiences might have been genuine. No one can prove that all psychic "miracles" have been frauds; therefore, the true believer may well reason that he or she is justified in keeping hope alive. Such thinking is not completely illogical, though it may seem pathological to the one admitting the fraud.

It does not seem as easy to explain why the true believer continues to believe in, that is, trust the psychic once he has admitted his deception. Trusting someone who reveals he is a liar and a fraud seems irrational, and such a person must appear so to the hoaxer. Some true believers may well be mad, but some may be deceiving themselves by assuming that it is possible that a person can have psychic powers without knowing it. One could disbelieve in one's psychic ability, yet still actually possess paranormal powers. Just as there are people who think they have psychic powers but don't really have any such powers, there may be people who have psychic powers but think they don't.

Now replace the word psychic with the word religion and you have my good friend Rube.

 

These are YOUR word, correct? I didn't force them on you or make this up. What do YOU get in Google when you put the words, "The Holy Land". You get something other than Maps and decriptions of Israel?

And since we've gone through 3 days of why US support for Israel is AGAINST a 'holy war' and not for one, then your repeating the said lies again is what? A failure to read and learn? Dishonesty on your part? Prejudice? Bigototry? I just give up. I've learned a long time ago that many people would just rather see me, my family and my people dead and refuse to ackonledge our Democracy for their own theological reasons. And your one of them.

Ruben

 

Actually, your a bigot because you posted bigoted statements which draw from historical behaviors which are documented in the Social Sciences and acknoldged by scholars world wide.

However, this posting by you drops you into an even lower postion of esteem by anyone who would bother to read through this rambling claptrap.

Which untruth did you shatter in this discussion? The one where Israel is not "the holy land" or your implication that Jews must be responsible for the centuries of hatred thrown at them. Or was it your misleading statement about the number of progroms and murders Jews have faced before and after the resulting independent Jewish state of Israel. Or was it the part where you said that Jews "Occupy" their own homeland, or that they don't deserve a home land, or that the land of Israel is not a Jewish home land. You've been all over the map on this one so its hard to keep track.

Or was it that the US is supporting a Jewish "Holy War' rather than defending themselves, or the part where you ignor the Islamic Doctrine of genocide against Jews in their home land.

Your stupid theory descibes far more of you than me. In addition to that, I'd add that the you've seem to have decided that I'm living some kind of sheltered existence and I need to get out in the world to better understand 'other' prespective. I get more diversity fetching my newspaper and morning cofee then you experience in a decade. How do I know that? Gee, I think maybe the 3 years I lived Florida, and then 2 years in Texas, and my extensive travels in the Military and as a Free Software advocate both in the US and in Europe qualifies for a little more diversity than the feeble life experience you've displayed thus far. I spend 3 months in Saudi Arabia when with the Army in the mid-1980's after flying chopper missions in Hondora and El Savador.


Mind you its not the great experience you have driving your Volks Wagon Bug back and forth to work every day to some subburban spawl in the middle of nowwhere, USA, bu it does count for being more than a hermit in my self-contained NY environment, as you would imagine that as some un-american lifestyle.

By all means though, next time the Islamofacists come hunting for something "American" to blow up, let it be the god forsaken dusty path you reside in.

Ruben

 

Well said Drus. You can't talk to a stone. Sad really. The idea of putting all the fanatics on both sides in a large pen and having a party for the winner is sounding better all the time. There is always little room for compromise when people speak in absolutes and when God is on your side, you have the ultimate absolute.

Ditto the just don't tell us we need to be involved in the stupidity to save another "democracy". Not all democracies are worth saving.

 

Well, not Jewish ones at least (or Chekoslavokian ones either)

 

Well Rube, you sure seem to a worldly kind of guy. Not like me of course. I pale in comparison to your wisdom and life experiences. We are all so impressed I can assure you. You actually come off as nothing but arrogant, smug, self-important, and elitist. I doubt your attitude has won you many friends here. But I'm sure you are quite comfortable snuggled up back in the fold.

Drus is completely right about you. It is pointless trying to actually discuss anything with someone as narrow minded as you. You resort to name calling and sad attempts at character assassination and misguided stabs at stereotyping people you haven't the vaguest idea about. If that's all you got, I have nothing further to say to you. You are just another loud obnoxious thread killer and I see exactly why nothing is ever resolved in the Middle East if it is populated with folks with your attitude. Maybe it is something as simple as your own attitude that keeps getting your people killed century after century and that would make all those deaths your own fault and you can't live with that truth. Me and my descendants will use you and your people as examples of how not to live long into the future after you and yours are dead and forgotten. Good bye and have a nice extermination.

 

there is something we can all thank god about.

 

Its amazing that you don't find this the least bit bigoted.

 

WHY do these muslims hate Jews? Let's look at that for a minute...

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During a May 7 episode of Muslim Woman Magazine, anchorwoman Doaa 'Amer asks her special guest, a 3-year-old girl named Basmallah, a series of questions the youngster quickly and calmly answers.

"Are you familiar with the Jews?" Amer asks.

The girl says yes, and says she does not like them "because…they’re apes and pigs."

"Who said so?" the anchor asks. "Our God," the girl replies, adding that Allah says this "in the Quran."

"May Allah be praised!", exclaims the anchor

(I have the footage if you want it)

********************************************

Face it, your have an islamic cult religion that relishes on death and victimization. You have a problem in your life? Blame the Jews because they are the decendents of "apes and pigs". 14 centuires of jihad, 14 centuries of hate, and 14 centuries of their ACTIONS all support my assertions.

After all, this is what "true muslims" (those that follow the koran) believe!

Want more proof? Take a look at this...

Koran 5:51 Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers.

In this verse Prophet Mohammed is clearly instructing his followers never to befriend a Christian or a Jew. Because if they take a Christian or a Jew as a friend, they will commit a wrong deed and Allah's wrath will be on them.

Koran 5:57 Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made your religion a jest and a pasttime...

Here "those who were given the Book before you" refers to Christians and Jews. Once again Mohammed is warning Muslims of all time never to befriend a Christian or a Jew.

Koran 5:64 The Jews say: 'God's hand is chained.' May their own hands be chained! May they be cursed for what they say!...

And of course, true muslims are just following their cult religion. Here's an example:


The following are excerpts from a lecture by Egyptian cleric Sheik Mahmoud Al-Masri, aired by Al-Majd TV on May 4, 2005.

Sheik Al-Masri: Allah has subjugated the Islamic nation to the most debased nation of all, to the sons of apes and pigs (i.e. Jews), because we have drifted away from obeying Allah, and from the path of Prophet Muhammad. It seems to me that every child in Palestine and Iraq is saying: "Not so long ago, I had a homeland and a family, and I lived in my mother's bosom. The Jews have shattered the walls of my home, and the Muslims have not taken my cause seriously. Not so long ago, I had a homeland and a family, and I lived in my mother's bosom. The Jews have shattered the walls of my home, and the Muslims have not taken my cause seriously."

The Prophet said, as reported in the book of Al-Muslim: "Judgment day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill the Jews, and then the Jews will hide behind stones and trees, and Allah will make the stones and trees speak, saying: 'Oh Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him', except for the Gharqad tree, which is the tree of the Jews." Since the Jews believe the Prophet Muhammad, they have planted Gharqad trees throughout Palestine.

**************************************

Read the Koran
Read and study the history and conquest of islam for the last 1,400 years
Read and study how their prophet waged war and had sex with 9 year olds (a nice guy, don't you think?)
See all of the oil ($$$$$) they control

Islamic jihad...coming to a civilized world near you.
See and study their ACTIONS

 

You know the hardliners I keep referring to. Well Midas fits the bill