Hey, why don't we "LIBERATE" Burma?

Do you say the same thing about the cop on your streets fighting crime?

I hate that most people require a threat of violence to behave but that is the way of the world.

In many ways we do act like world police and that is an unfortunate side effect of caring about what happens in our world.


Playing world cops was not seen as bad when we were standing up to the Russian nuclear arms race as well as kicking Suddam out of Kuait after he invasded but we get attacked for other theings.

There is no way to make everyone happy.


Do you believe America should be isolationists?

Man??????

Pansy maybe, but they do have a new leader who seems to have some backbone for a change, we will see what happens.



I am not dodging the question, the question is complex and has answers that are very difficult to discuss if you have no working knowledge of the basic principles.

Things like trade agreements can have oil related agreements combined to ensure a free flowing supply from certain areas.

 

Cops don't claim they're providing criminals freedom as they point the gun at them.

Any idea or concept that needs to be implimented with fear, threats, or violence is wrong. But you're right, that is the way of the world. Rule through fear. Doesn't mean we have to accept it, ever. Today is a new day.

It's our way, and we are no different than anyone else in the world. Can you tell me another country on the face of the Earth who's Federal Government has more control in their citizens daily lives than ours? if someone says something long enough, and backs it up with fear, it becomes reality. I'd prefer to see the chains rather than be subjected to psychological warfare from the people who are suppose to be acting on my behalf.

I had a female professor from Iran last year who told me she had much more "freedom" there, than here in her daily life. Money was not the end all be all of life. Oppression doesn't always come in the form of guns in ones face.

It was by me.

It's not anyones job to make anyone happy, only yourself. Certainly isn't anyones job to make people scared and unhappy to control them through various methods like debt, threats, fear through "shock and awe" campaigns, or screaming "bring it on" from behind the most fortified compound in the world as you serve your children up to death.

I believe we should stop being hypocrites, tell the truth, take a look at ourselves and deal with others fairly in an open, free market for any goods we may need. Being a biz owner, I don't think you'd appreciate me coming in and telling you what to do, threaten you, and force you to pay "protection". There is a reason extortion is illegal. it's wrong.

I do understand, I also owned a business for 11 years. The way we go about that is wrong, The Saudi Royal family is one of the most oppressive regimes in the mid East. Why are we buddies with them and virtually keep them in power against the wishes of their citizens? We help them oppress their people. if you were Osama, you'd be pissed too.


We are what we hate and that is why we hate it.

And for the record, it's not Bush, or any other name you hear. Shadow people hide in plain site. Cowards. Their fear, becomes everyones fear. And shadow people come from all nations, they don't recognize borders. Ingenious to be able to oppress hundreds of millions of people and make them believe they're free. Too bad they don't use that to make the world a better place, but alas, they are their own worst enemy and will destroy themselves. Unfortunately, like a "if I can't have her no one can", psycho, they will take as many of us down with them as they can.

The truth is never complicated. Lies and deception are. But the wonderful thing is, truth can never be destroyed no matter what people think/say/do. Truth shines like a beacon and will always be found by those willing to look for it no matter how many lies are piled on top of it.

 

Where are we doing that?

So how do you propose we get the murderers to believe what you want them to believe?

The problem is you believed her.

She lied to you, homosexuals are murdered, women are murdered, how can you get more supressive of your society then killing them for not believeing what you are told to believe?

So you believe in being an isolationist.

Most people do not believe in that.

So if your neighbor is abusing his children you mind your own business and never take action right?

Again, where is this happening?

America provided over 70% of the food eaten by Afganistan at the time we were attacked on 9/11, America has a long history of giving out more aid to poor Countries then all the other Countries combined.

That is a very narrow and uneducated view.

You keep saying we should mind our own business and not judge others but you wrongly judge the Saudi Royal family. Why is it okay for you to make sweeping judgements but our Government cannot?

Just because you do it does not make it right.

What you don't understand is people like you create the need for oil but then in the same breath you complain that we work to keeping the oil comming to fill that need.

If you don't want America to work to keep oil comming, stop adding to the problem.

Your wrong there, there is a huge difference between a government that will stone their citizens to death and America, no matter how hard you try to twist things.

Wow, your a conspiracy theory wacko..........I will simply say paranoia is a medical issue that you cannot get proper treatment for in a place like this.

 

Iraq

Is what we do working?

I believe honest people.

That's their problem

I'll make sure you aren't abusing your kids too.

Typical personal attack of someone who runs out of ammo..Presidents come and go, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Explain it.

BTW.. conspiracy theory wacko's thinks countries like Iraq are out to get us, when it fact it turns out to be the opposite and will pull any reason out of their ass to prove it. Happens all those reasons belong to the wacko... strange.

Darfur needs you... Savior and champion of freedom.

 

Am I a wacko for thinking non elected folks I never see have a major influence on our government, and others around the world because they have money? Why don't they publically disclose these meetings? Perhaps they have something to hide.. Does Joe Blow that works at Walmart have this kind of access? I think not.. But you say money has nothing to do with "freedom".. How does that work?

Why were all those Saudi's wisked out of the country after 911? Several of which were named Bin Laden... who are a very large, wealthy family. Most of the hijackers were Saudi's. Why were they so pissed at us? They hate freedom? Americans couldn't fly, all flights were grounded.. why could the Saudi's? You don't find that odd?

Perhaps the answers lie in our relationship with the oppressive Saudi Royal family.. doesn't matter, I'm not privy to that kind of info.. I'm just a lowly, middle class American who votes and pays his taxes.

You never did address the issue of Rummy and Saddam shaking hands in the 80's.. what was the deal there? He was a nice guy back then? But he gassed the kurds...

Perhaps we should move on to the Panama invasion in the late 80's so you don't get so pissed.. Remember Noriega?

I apologize for the last comment on my last post TJ... I really don't want to disrespect you, and would appreciate the same in return.

 

We are shooting criminals, murderers, bombers and such, not innocent people, in fact, the changes we have made in the violence in the last few months have come from getting the local groups to trust us, by working together to fight the terrorists and other outside killers that have been driving most of that violence.

Yep, but we are always looking for new methods that will work better, if you have more then empty wishes to offer, feel free to discuss the specifice of how you would get people like Suddam to not attack Kuwait.

How do you know she was honest?

She in fact was a lier, and you were gullible.

Here is one of the many thousands of examples:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0505-06.htm

Being an isolationist is not the answer, we cannot bury our heads in the sand and pretend reality does not exist.

No problem there, I would die before I allowed my children to be harmed.

My point is as a neighbor, would you act to protect a child being abused of would you mind your own business and allow it to continue.

You dodged the question, try answering it.

I would if I understood what you were trying to say.

It does not take a brain surgon to see the dnager people like Suddam is to people. His raping little girls and killing the entire family if they complained was reason enough for me to support his removal.

As well as the 40 something UN resolutions that were never enforced.

We have sent massive amounts of aid already.

Obviously there are limits to helping even with us but feel free to sell all your things, hop on a plane witht he money and help these people if you believe strongly that more help is needed, don't just sit in your safe little world doing nothing but complain about everything.




Concerning your other comments, we do not live in a perfect world and sometimes we need to decide between the lesser of two evils. We supported Bin Laden against Russian invasian and many years later he pays us back with 9/11.

There is an old saying, no good deed goes unpunnished.

While I admit that our good works do sometimes explode in our faces, we don't do these good things for recognition, we do them because they are the right thing to do.

While we do these good things, we do sometimes make a few mistakes but we cannot becaome frozen, afraid to act because we fear making a mistake.


?I am only one, but still, I am one. I cannot do everything but I can do something. And, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do what I can.? - Edward Everett Hale

 

It makes me feel better to know not one innocent person has been killed by my country. No children, no women, no old folks just trying to survive. No good men that just want to take care of their families. Good thing we killed that terrorist, Pat Tillman. You going to call him collateral damage? Course not, you'd lie to make him into a hero rather than tell the truth. Collateral damage is for "them". Double speak and lies from your "leaders". I don't follow liars and twisters of the truth. Perhaps we should worry about the next Tim McVie, your brother in arms, Gulf War veteran, All American boy. We don't like to talk about him, do we? Did Saddam ever blow up a Federal building in the heartland? He was 100% American, a registered republican, and a Gulf war veteran. According to our new homeland security methods, we should start profiling angry, white, American Republicans who served in the armed forces. Right?

Let's define murder.. here's my offering: The intentional killing of a person/s by another person/s.

Because we became friends and she had no motivation to lie to me. We talked about a lot of things. She taught chemistry, we talked about these things outside of class.

Why don't you look at our history going back to the American Indians, and judge us instead. Another thing, she has lived in both countries. have you? She never said they didn't have their problems and pretend they were perfect, like you do.

Never said we should be, you keep trying to say I did though.. I said, we should stop being hypocrites, stop lying, take a hard look at ourselves, and stop killing people.

So would a human being in Iraq.

I would call the proper authorities, not shoot them in the head.

What I'm saying is, our presidents come and go, yet the same people have been running the show since JFK was assassinated.

Do you see the danger in someone like us to the rest of the world? How about we worry about our own rapists and intimidaters.

Why has the UN not demanded we get rid of our WMD's, and placed economic sanctions on us?

Hypocrite

You're living a fantasy if you think we only perform "good works". There's another good saying... You only get what you give.


"The vile are ever prone to detect the faults of others, though they be as small as mustard seeds, and persistently shut their eyes against their own, though they be as large as Vilva fruit. ~ Hinduism. Garuda Purana 112


Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ~ Christianity. Matthew 7.1-5


Easily seen are others' faults, hard indeed to see are one's own. Like chaff one winnows others' faults, but one's own one hides, as a crafty fowler conceals himself by camouflage.


He who sees others' faults is ever irritable--his corruptions grow. He is far from the destruction of the corruptions. ~ Buddhism. Dhammapada 252-53


Happy is the person who finds fault with himself instead of finding fault with others. ~ Islam. Hadith


If you want to criticize someone, first criticize yourself more than three times. ~ Unification Church. Sun Myung Moon, 9-30-69


Confucius said, "The gentleman calls attention to the good points in others; he does not call attention to their defects. The small man does just the reverse of this." ~ Confucianism. Analects 12.16


Confucius said, "The good man does not grieve that other people do not recognize his merits. His only anxiety is lest he should fail to recognize theirs." ~ Confucianism. Analects 1.16


Do not judge thy comrade until thou hast stood in his place. ~ Judaism. Mishnah, Abot 2.5

Early in the morning [Jesus] came again to the temple; all the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?" This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus looked up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again." ~ Christianity. John 8.2-11

Love your enemy ~ Jesus


Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; as it is written.

As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me
and every tongue shall confess to God.

 

Obviously you do not understand the versus you are posting and only want to stifle discussion when you know you are wrong so I will leave you at this.


You are a Hypocrite.


You complain all day long but you are part of the problem. You partake of things that keep the problem alive and pretend to not like the result of actions you cause yourself.



The second you can live up to the standard of living without cars and oil is the day I listen to you preaching the rest of us need to do what you refuse to do.


If you hate America so much, fine, leave, I am sure your friend from Iran will take you to the utopia she lied to you about.


If you cannot even accept the truth that Iran kills homosexuals as young as 14, you are truly a mess.

 

A 5 year old can understand those verses, a hypocrite cannot.


You sir, are a Hypocrite.

So you are saying oil is the reason? Make up your mind already.. this is getting old.

I love America, and don't want hypocrites such as yourself to destroy it. She never said Iran was utopia, she said the government was miles less involved in her day to day life. Being that I'm American, it's the only country I'm fit to judge.

Polish the gun, get busy.

What about Timmy (terrorist) McVie? Pat (Collateral damage) Tillman?

Go try to convince an idiot to believe your bull**** if you can't handle some words on a screen from a wacko... Better yet, stick a gun in his face and tell them what to think. I can only be conquered by logic.

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gay rights are not recognized in Saudi Arabia and homosexuality is a serious crime punishable by death. However, there is some evidence that there exists an underground gay community [1]. The treatment of homosexuals has prompted criticism from international human rights organizations, but the government defends its actions as being mandated by Islam and not by a secular institution.




You got your work cut out for you TJ... better get moving. You know, if you want to champion gay rights, the gays in your country could use your help too.. and you wont have to kill anyone.

 

America is not alone in the world but again, if we are too busy right now doing other more important things in our priority scale and you tryly want to help and not just bust your gums, then do so, go to these places and take action.


By the way, if your truly interested in knowing why your understanding of the versus is wrong, I give you this example:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_3_29/ai_n11838798/pg_1


Context is everything, if you do not understand the context, you cannot understand the meaning.

 

I'm an American, I'll worry about America. The enemy is in the mirror.

Not the first time some pseudo christain has twisted the teachings to fit their life like a glove.

I implore you to see how under the leadership of Ghandi, India drove the brits home following the teachings of Christ.

Good point, contexts change and people like to bend the teachings to fit their context like a glove. Jesus's words and intentions are a constant, they don't bend to fit mans agenda like a glove. You judge every country, but your own country. Why? Are we above critisim? Are we perfect?

I understand, a soldier/follower is taught with fear of consequences to obey without question. I'm not that way.. I question everything to death, and will continue to do so til I die, just like a child.. Only now, I already know the answer most of the time before I ask the question.

All I expect is the truth, now and forever and refuse to be silent. Sorry.

 

No, our enemy is in your mirror, the enemy within.

Like you are doing, you twist the versus to say what they never said or meant.

When people are forced to look at the context of the versus, they either see their flaw or they strike out in their refusal to accept they were wrong and attack those that point out their error.

Like you twisting versus you cannot and don't even want to understand.

You refuse to look at the context, so that is why you will always be wrong.

Because your false conclusions have been handed to you by groups like moveon.org. You lack the ability to have an open mind so by shielding your mind from the facts, you have preconceived results.

And yet you lie about things like the war in Iraq and you misrepresent bible versus, nice touch.

 

Everyone is their own worst enemy.. the world is made up of individual human beings, period. "Iraq" is not a human being. "America" is not a human being. "General motors" is not a human being. Although we do like to speak of them in that context, don't we? Good place for individuals to hide..

Precisely, check the mirror.

You refuse to look at the intention and the truth, that is why you will always be right, in your mind.

I'm not sure what moveon.org has said or done, nor do I care. I think for myself. Who are they? I listen to individual human beings. Is this a persons name?

Quotes of mine please, one lie.

You and your leaders lie about the war in Iraq and twist bible verses to fit your agenda like a glove. Not cool.. Once and for all, you name the reason for war and we'll go from there. Freedom haters? Terrorists? Oil? Gay rights? Avenging rape? You decide...

 

Hey TJ.. Why did the militaries top leaders, who are individual human beings, lie about Pat Tillman's death in that canyon in Afghanistan?

Hey TJ, when we invaded Panama in the late 80's, why were the American media kept away by the American government?

Hey TJ, why did G.B. senior have Manuel Noriega on the payroll of the CIA when he was the director in the 70's, then, as President of the U.S., invade his country in the original "shock and awe" campaign to arrest him because he was a drug dealer in the late 80's?

Hey TJ, why after Jimmy Carter signed a treaty to turn the canal over to Panama in 2000 do we still have military personel stationed there?

Hey TJ, why did the puppet government we set up in Panama after Noriaga was sent to prison in Florida declare Panama cannot have a military, thus, "forcing" us to secure the canal after we "honored" our treaty and turned the canal over in 2000?

Hey TJ, how many Americans even know we invaded Panama in the late 80's?

Slick....

 

quite honestly the most close-minded thing I have ever read.



And Wez, you do know that Jesus didn't speak English, right? The translations that you read are just that- translations. And translations from a more complex language into a simple one. The meaning single verses can be very much taken a multitude of ways (or made to 'fit like a glove' as you say.) It is extremely important to look, as Timesoke said, at the complete context in which it was written.

 

As a true believer, I will be the judge of the correct intrepretations of religious works, you do not have the ability to do so.


You have good points about certain things but you allow those points to completely close your mind to the fact that sometimes we must decide to act on a situation of the least of all evils.


You point your finger and do nothing yourself. You want oil to magically appear at the gas station and refuse to consider the many complex issues governing the trip it must take to get there.


You forget that when we were helping people like Bin Laden, it was a choice of either helping him, or letting Russia take over that area. Helping or not helping Bin Laden was bad either way but we had to decide what bad thing was less bad, a thing leaders do, and complainers just keep complaining because that is all they can ever do.


The war in Iraq was for many reasons, not one, it is called a complex issue, most likely too complex for you to understand being as you keep saying it was for oil and we only kill innocent people.



Where was America when Russia was trying to take over the world? Did we mind our own business and let them do what they wanted or did we take action and stop it with all the world benefitting from our actions?

 

What I should have said eddo, was, I usually already know the answer the person I'm asking will give me... quite empowering. Ask Tori if that would help her as a lawyer...

 

Hahahahahahaha... I'm not tainted by anyones "training", I think I have the ability to understand the truth.

How about we choose good, instead of any evil?

I thought oil was out of this discussion? Is that why we lie, cheat, and kill around the world? No more back and forth or your new nickname will be "waffle".

Bad choice, eh?

Never said anything of the sort.. I told you to decide, and the truth is never complex, only lies and deception.

Apparently, we had some business in Panama to take care of first... Trying to take over the world? Hahahahahahahahaha.. That's a good one.

 

ok, that makes more sense, but it is still close minded. We aren't in a court of law, we are on a discussion board. And instead of actually discussing issues with people, you, admittedly, are filling in peoples answers for questions you haven't even asked yet.
I have seen you be wrong at this a number of times, but it doesn't seem to help you understand that you really don't know others as well as you think you do.

But I will bow out now in regards to this, as it has nothing to do with the rest of the discussion.