Another Heart-wrenching Loss

There is higher rates of diagnosed mental health issues in the U.S., but not extraordinarily higher than anywhere else on Earth. Yet our mass shootings are astronomically higher. You can't explain that away with mental health alone.

 

Go back and look again at that list of 126 non-gun mass killings in my post #15, and recognize how few of those were committed in the USA. Does the fact that those killers resorted to other instruments of death help you understand that it is mental health and not guns which is the higher priority?

 

Wanna know what I noticed about that list? 1. It's a tiny amount compared to the amount of shootings even this year alone.

2. 9/11 tops the list, and I'm only just now getting to go through airport security with shoes on for the first time in 20+ years. Was that helpful? I dunno, but the point your list left in its wake a litany of policy changes. We should change policy in the aftermath of tragedy.

 

If all of the non-gun murders of 2 or more were counted, instead of just the top 126, how long do you suppose that list might be?

Your focus should be on changing policy regarding guns after changing policy on mental health . . . not instead of.

 

I’m sick of these dumbass liberals wanting to take away my right to own firearms.

Tell ya what, I’ll give up my right to bear firearms if they are willing to give up their right to freedom of speech, freedom to assemble and their right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures.

I already know these dumbasses won’t give up a single thing, so we might as well consider this matter closed.

 

This matter was closed before they started . . . They’re just not smart enough to accept it and stop wasting their time, energy, and songwriting ability, wasteworthy though it is.

 

Not nearly as long as the guns one still.

Why? Also, if you actually cared about mental health, you'd be rebuking the Trump administration’s bulldozing of scientific research and crackpottery being pushed by RFK Jr.

 

Honestly, Gene…. In hindsight I have to question what medical research has afforded us in recent decades. An unending wheel of pharmaceuticals one after the other? All to fund the medical/pharmaceutical stock tickers while creating an entire generation of sick people getting sicker… And that ISN'T crackpottery?….. Here’s a fun fact. I didn’t know a diabetic kid my entire youth. There are four in my girls class….. We aren’t getting better as a result of research. We are getting sicker.

 

. . . And not nearly as short as you implied in post 43.

My point remains that more are dead because of mental misalignment than because of guns.

I am no more invested in RFK’s positions than you were in Fauci’s.

No matter. Mental health should be restored by training folks to recognize, acknowledge, and deal with reality . . . Not by pumping them full of drugs to ease their discomfort. Drugs are a crutch, not a cure.

 

Diabetes provides a compelling example.

There's not more, we're just better at diagnosing and treating it. Due to research which has helped us understand it!

The harsh truth is that there's not more now, you're just noticing it because 1. There's less stigma around it and 2. they used to just die.

 

One of the strongest treatments we have and use is therapy, but it's criminally underfunded!

 

Since when was the healthy everyday approach of recognizing, acknowledging, and dealing with reality relegated to old fashioned teachings of parents and schools?

Since when did we reserve those lessons only for those who slid too far down the slippery slope of indulgence and escapism?

Maybe it started during the promotion of permissiveness in the 1960’s, sparked by Benjamin Spock. That has certainly run its course and proven itself to be unhealthy as broad-based practice. Yes, there are those who benefit from such upbringing, but there are just as many, it seems, who end up worse for it.

Why in the world have we abandoned the practice of proactively teaching all to get real at a young age, rather than resorting to it after someone goes off the rails?

This embodies all that’s wrong with liberalism . . . Don’t fix it if it ain’t broke (once again, don’t recognize, don’t acknowledge and don’t deal with it). When it finally breaks, throw tons of money at it.

Where is that saying of mine when I need it? . . . Oh, yeah . . . Rarely is the liberal viewpoint tainted by realism.

Therapy? Therapy, my arse! Teaching to recognize, acknowledge and deal with reality should be upbringing . . . Not Therapy!

 

I can see your views in mental health are quite old fashioned and divorced from reality. You can't just tell someone to get over it, that's how we end up in this situation. You're also clearly unwilling to actually change policy for mental health care, opting instead for the tired old "bootstraps bootstraps bootstraps"

Look where that has got us. Commit to systemic change or accept the blood on your hands.

I don't know why you think therapy can only be reactive either. Plenty of people benefit from it proactively. You'd benefit from it, I'm sure!

 

To GeneWright . . .

You wrote:

I can see your views in mental health are quite old fashioned and divorced from reality. You can't just tell someone to get over it, that's how we end up in this situation.

I respond:

Maybe you can't just tell someone to get over it, but you certainly can teach them, and it should begin with the terrible two's, and maybe even before that. The sooner our tykes recognize that the universe doesn't revolve around them, the sooner they acknowledge and grapple with that reality, and the easier it becomes for them to compromise with their surroundings, to adapt, and to understand and ignore those who will not.


Those who treat the universe as theirs become alienated, frustrated, unable to understand why everyone else doesn't come around to their point of view, and are the same ones who, given enough time and the right circumstances eventually pop their tops, with or without guns.


You wrote:

You're also clearly unwilling to actually change policy for mental health care . . .

I respond:

Oh, I'm perfectly willing to change policy for mental health care . . . let’s change how we raise children . . . to not expect anything except food, water and shelter until they are 18, and not to expect anything but hard work, needy children and taxes after that. Everything else that comes their way is gravy.


You wrote:

. . . tired old "bootstraps bootstraps bootstraps"


Ahh, there's the permissive Daddio coming out in you . . .


You wrote:

Look where that has got us. Commit to systemic change or accept the blood on your hands.

I respond:

No, you commit to systemic change, and return to raising kids right! The Democrat Party, in trying to cultivate a voting majority has bribed these Kidiots with tons of promises they cannot keep.


You wrote:

I don't know why you think therapy can only be reactive either. Plenty of people benefit from it proactively. You'd benefit from it, I'm sure!

I respond:

Upbringing is proactive. Therapy is reactive. There is no proactive therapy.

 

You literally cannot with many disorders. What can you just teach someone with schizophrenia or bipolar dosorder? The nature of these disorders is a detachment from reality, there's no reasoning. Same goes for more common depressove and anxiety disorders.

Of course there is. Do you think you can't work on yourself before you do outward damage? Most people aren't aware of what is troubling them. Introspection is difficult, especially for mentally ill people. It's much easier with a neutral guide.

 

No, there isn't. That’s called personal development, not therapy.

Until halfway through high school I was introverted. I'd never been much of a talker . . . more of a wallflower, really. I frequently felt very intimidated by my classmates, and was withdrawn. Trying different sports, and various activities didn't really help. What I needed to do was learn to communicate effectively, and with forethought. What an important discovery that turned out to be. I can't say I was fully aware of it at the time . . . just that it sort of came to me over a couple years time.

Trying to balance part-time work and too many extra curricular activities as a senior in high school, I knew I was under too much stress and needed to make a change. I made a personal sacrifice to resolve that stress, but it was necessary, and worth it.

On to college, I identified the stupidity of drinking too much, to the point of drinking myself sick a few nights per semester my sophomore year, and forced change upon myself without anyone else saying thing one about it. Since then, I still have a couple every once in a while, but puking and hangovers (my bachelor party excluded) were behind me.

I recognize procrastination as one of my personal weaknesses, and challenge myself in each situation to know the consequences of any delay, and the roots of my desire to put it off.

The above practices were not / are not therapy. Except for me gradually coming out of my shell in high school, they were born of self awareness . . . something we can all be taught. Something we should all be taught. I was fortunate to have parents who raised me well.

In the case of my social emergence, I like to think that was a more gradual, organic process so many of us go through as adolescents. If my parents had known how awkward I felt around my peers, they might have accelerated my progression. By the same token, had my parents instilled in me too much unwarranted self-confidence, I might have found myself cast out by my peers instead of simply not having their attention.

I think there's some instructive detail in that.

As for some mental illnesses, such as Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder, you are right. There's not a lot that can be done from the child-rearing perspective . . . But, there is some. Stress is a significant trigger of such disorders, and teaching kids how to identify and deal with stress is important.

Something that Democrats need to grapple with is that it is not society's burden to teach the mentally ill how to identify and deal with stress after they've cracked. It's the burden of the family to teach the children beforehand so they can better channel life's stresses and become well-socialized (no, I do not mean dependent upon OPM).

 

It seems we can agree to disagree that there's dofferent approaches to therapy. Perhaps it's changed since you last went. The bottom line I'm seeing is that you don't want to actually do anything on a communal scale to address this problem. Why is that? What's so scary about helping people you're not legally responsible for to you?