Death Penalty.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by CoinBlazer, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer de omnibus dubitandum

    I’m going to tag y’all to be absolutely sure my position is clear. @clembo @JoeNation @GeneWright @FryDaddyJr @c jay

    My ideals could never be applied to the US justice system because the flawed justice system is comprised of flawed people. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not being maniacal and trigger happy death Penalty advocate here. I just believe that we as a society have the solemn obligation and responsibility to shed the parts of society who have willed themselves to commit (in my opinion) the two worst crimes a human can do. Rape and Murder.
  2. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    The old thought experiment that went something like this. "What if someone killed your mother or your child or your spouse. Then you 'd be for the death penalty" was usually trotted out back in the day during these discussions. As it turned out, many, many people got no real satisfaction or closure after the execution and many family members often would ask the judge presiding over the case to consider life rather than execution. I guess there isn't a heck of a lot of closure after 10 years in prison and then an execution.

    I bet that if you gave these family members the opportunity to kill the murderers with their own hands, few would avail themselves of the opportunity. This entire line of reasoning is irrelevant since it is the law that must be prescribed and applied equally across society. The law has to be the determining factor else we have vigilantes taking the law into their own hands and society breaks down rapidly thereafter.

    These arguments that merely appeal to emotion have to be removed from consideration or we end up on trial in the court of public opinion. I think we can afford to lock dangerous people away for the rest of their lives to save ourselves from ourselves. I'm not entirely sure that we can be trusted with life and death decisions given our track record on death penalty cases.
  3. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    That reminded me that the two most often committed war crimes are rape and murder. I know this is a tangent but there are far more scenarios for rape and murder than just the average criminal on the street. Are you including other instances of these crimes that might happen during war, or occupation, or through a church affiliation? Are advocating putting priests, soldiers, and government officials to death? Can a woman claim her husband raped her and have him executed?
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  4. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer de omnibus dubitandum

    In a perfect justice system, anyone regardless of position. Street criminal, soldier, priest and anyone else who committed said crimes should be executed. Justice should be blind to any race, religion or position in life. Sadly it isn’t.
    If a person commits said crimes, I don’t believe you have any sort of redemption value, no matter who you are.
  5. Recusant

    Recusant Member

    It's all very well to indulge in thought experiments. In the real world, if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their asses on the ground when they walk.
    CoinBlazer likes this.
  6. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    Why would it?
    This is why we have prisons.

    In no way but consider this.

    One of them has "one too many" at the company Christmas party and hits the road.
    On the way home he/she causes an accident causing someone to lose the loss of their right hand.

    Irreparable damage.

    Death penalty?
  7. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    Kill a person?

    What happened to execute or eradicate?

    Your scarier is getting scarier

    Eradication is scary enough.
  8. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    People have always been flawed. So there never will be a perfect justice system.

    And yes, you are coming off as maniacal and trigger happy to me.

    Dictators rise to power with such views. That's reality I'm afraid.

    To me you're sounding like a judge, jury and executioner wanna be.

    It seems that every question you've been asked has been answered with.

    Question now is:

    With all these exactions what kind of society would we have left?
  9. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    My wife just watched a movie called Just Mercy.

    Based on a true story about a man who spent years on death row in Alabama.

    A black man who was eventually proven innocent. Luckily for him BEFORE his execution.

    Apparently his story was on 60 Minutes and it helped prove his innocence.

    As of the date of the movie it stated 1 in 9 people on death row were later proven innocent.
    Over 10%!

    A truly sobering number amigos.
  10. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    JoeNation said "back in the day" and it got me to reminiscing.

    Bear with me CoinBlazer as it's going to lead to some unsolicited advice.
    Take said advice however you want as it will be, after all, unsolicited.

    Here goes.

    Back in the day I used to post quite a lot here on Partisan Lines. So long ago that when I started this forum went by a different name.

    I came here via CoinTalk where I also posted quite a lot. Over 6,000 posts if I'm not mistaken. Going to have to pop back in there.

    Anyway I took quite a long hiatus for a few reasons.
    First was a lot of health issues.
    Second was what I considered rampant stupidity.

    I didn't post here for nearly the entire Trump administration.

    I returned and JoeNation and Recusant welcomed me back. They were the only two that recognized me and conversely they were the only two I recognized.

    So I'm still forming opinions of those who post and I figure they're doing the same of me.
    "He's a liberal" leaps to mind but believe me I'm more than a "blanket statement".

    This in mind JoeNation has always been a prolific poster and he makes one think if one chooses to.

    Recusant has always struck me as very insightful. Not as prolific but he too makes one think if one chooses to.

    I've always liked them both.

    That being said "back in the day" it seems this site was a lot more heavily moderated.
    I saw trolls come and go and I saw people banned because of their posts. Quite hateful posts that went on for quite some time.

    I'm going to tell you about two of those banned. JoeNation will remember them but I'm not sure if Recusant was here then.

    One was a character that went by the name of Midas.
    He railed on about Muslims incessantly. As far as he was concerned ALL muslims should be eradicated. ALL muslims should be killed. ALL muslims should be dead.
    Now I can't say he used the word eradicated but I'm afraid you did.

    Eventually he was banned.

    My point here is that eradicate is a very powerful word and the use of it can be construed or misconstrued in many ways.

    The second person I will tell you about is Aiden.

    I consider him a "snake in the grass" amongst other things.
    He befriended me (and many others) on CoinTalk.
    He appeared to just be a nice guy.

    It wasn't until I came here that I realized just how wrong I was.

    I will give him this though. He was much more "equal opportunity" as it were than Midas.

    Aiden seemed to hate ANYONE that didn't agree with him.
    A lot of this (if not all) came from his religious convictions.

    His real name is Aiden Work if I remember correctly. He lived in New Zealand and I googled him one day.
    I found an article stating he was the most hateful man in New Zealand.

    A lofty title for sure and here he was in this happy little community.

    We're getting to my point so please be patient with me.

    You recently started a thread about vulgarity. You posted what JoeNation said to you that prompted your response to F*** OFF.

    To me at least it seems he may have been yanking your chain a bit.
    However, I see a lot of truth in what he said and I'm betting that's why he posted what he did.

    You ARE young and the world is a way different place than when we were young.
    You DO still have a lot to learn about the realities of life.

    We ALL do when you get down to it. Life in itself is a continuous learning process.

    I've read many of your posts. You voted for the first time for example.
    Good for you. Voting is important.

    This "liberal" has voted ever since he became of age. This "liberal" voted for Ronald Reagan when he first became of age.
    That might just surprise some here.
    This old "liberal" has changed a lot over the years.

    People change and so will you. It's inevitable.
    As much as we'd love the world to cater to our beliefs and wake up every morning to cheerful unicorns farting glitter it will never happen.

    Reality. It can be a real bummer.
    It's how you deal with it that matters.

    As I read your posts I form opinions about you as I'm sure you do about me.
    We could both be totally wrong.

    Here's what I see in you.

    A young man just starting out in life in the real world. You'll learn a lot about reality when you start your adventure in the military.
    It's just your beginning.

    I also see a young man that just might venture into politics. You have very strong convictions and opinions.

    I was once a young man as you but as I stated earlier the world is totally different,

    Blaise Pascal is in my signature line. He was a 17thcentury French philosopher and mathematician that I first came upon in a French philosophy class way back in college.

    "Everything that is perfected by progress also perishes by progress".

    That really struck me as a young man as it was true when he wrote and holds true to this day.
    It will always hold true.

    So why do I ramble so? Why do I talk of Midas and Aiden?

    Because opinions, convictions, beliefs and words are VERY powerful.

    I am at a point in my life where I could take an "I don't care" attitude.

    I choose not to and here comes unsolicited advice.

    I suggest that you think carefully when expressing your opinions, convictions and beliefs.
    Choose your words VERY carefully.

    What I said at your age is history. It is not documented. It is not recorded and it's certainly not on the Internet since the Internet didn't exist.
    Cell phones and even pagers didn't exist.

    Things you grew up with were yet to come.

    Your world is way different than mine was.

    So take this as you will,

    Think before you type. I mean really think.
    Once it's on the net it never goes away and just might come back to bite you in the ass when you least expected it.

    Words are very powerful.

    Good luck in the adventure known as life.
  11. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer de omnibus dubitandum

    I have read this response in it’s entirety. Thanks for sharing and I will take consideration on your advice here.
  12. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    You're more than welcome and glad to hear it.

    With my typing skills a post like that takes me forever.;)
  13. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Aiden, that man was out on the fringe.

    I have always known that coin collecting was a highly conservative hobby. In other words, the vast majority of coin collectors are conservatives. For whatever reason, and I have my theories, most of the people I've met at coin events were republicans without a doubt. As a side note, interesting that we never talk about coins here. We don't seem to avoid any other topics. Hum?

    Come here to PL as long as I have is hard for me to explain. It has been frustrating over the years at times but I to have take long breaks only to return and begin posting prolifically again. I guess that I enjoy different opinions and enjoy the banter that goes along with it all. There have been annoying people like our friend in Florida and I certainly know that I have not always been a source of insightful and engaging rhetoric but I hoped that my more calm and informative opinions balanced out my less judgmental and opinionated postings. But I'm also not really keeping score.

    The good news for y'all is that my time here my be coming to an end. I am retiring at the end of May as is my wife. We are going to take a polar bear trip to Churchill, CA and then get rid of everything we can and move back to the pacific northwest into some kind of downtown condo or loft and just do whatever the hell we want to do. One of my sons lives out that way and another is likely moving out there and the other may end up in Asia soon. We're all on the move as soon as this pandemic ends. I can't wait.

    I should be around for at least a little while but I see a lot lest posting after this fall. All things turn and move on.
    FryDaddyJr likes this.
  14. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    The bullion collectors are even worse, and yes my collecting is gold and some silver

    want to see some lunacy?
  15. JoeNation

    JoeNation Patron Saint of Idiots

    I feel like I could have so fun over there. :D
  16. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

  17. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    Before I was on disability I worked at a coin shop for about 10 years.

    The environment there was far right and way racist believe me. I just kept my mouth shut and my ears open for the most part.

    Heard the conspiracy theories and learned about tiny airplanes moving the clouds around to change the weather.
    Yup, one guy listened to Alex Jones.
    No mention of lizard people though.:(

    Between leaving and finally getting disability I had to sell a lot of my coins.
    I set up at shows and the atmosphere was similar.

    Still, my old boss and I are on good terms. I stop in every few weeks just to shoot the breeze.
    Occasionally he'll call me about small size currency as I was the paper money guy there.

    Get a free lunch there on occasion too.

    It's all good.
  18. FryDaddyJr

    FryDaddyJr Well-Known Member

    free lunch is free lunch, regardless if it comes from racists.. nom nom
  19. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer de omnibus dubitandum

    I read this thread all over again from post 1 to the end. And like what Clembo was saying, I was thinking about what I have said and what others said.

    Do I take back the primary idea behind my thoughts on the Death Penalty?
    But if I went back in time, would’ve I been more constructive and detailed and better choices of words?
    I will admit this thread wasn’t my finest arguments but I suppose I have about 60 more years to refine my touch.
    clembo and JoeNation like this.
  20. clembo

    clembo Well-Known Member

    We weren't arguing we were discussing.;)

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