Team, Is the Military Draft looming in the near (2 yr or less, LOL) future or perhaps longer depending on the 2008 Presidential Elections? MSNBC is talking hard about troop levels in Iraq and around the world. They're using every word except DRAFT and the points made for the need of one are/seem valid. This War on Terror and changing Radical Islams ideology (sp) is going to last a LONG time 50+ years... Lets here it. What do you have to say about it? Ben P.S. Chris Matthews (Hardball, MSNBC) sounds like he has a mouthfull of butterscotch candies which give him a lisp...
I think a draft would be stupid. It would solidify opposition against the administration, and wouldn't solve the problem. Assuming that the US will continue the strategy of occupation and empire building that has become popular, the military needs to be completely reorganized into [at least] two groups. The first is a combat force with the capability of sweeping through opposing armies leaving a trail of total destruction to force submission, and which will be withdrawn after this mission is accomplished. The second would be a force specifically trained in the "art" of occupying, policing, and quickly rebuilding local institutions. Now, I'll be the first to admit that this might not even be possible, especially in Iraq where nothing is likely to work at this point, but expecting a single force to fill both roles is completely unreasonable in my opinion. They are two different skill sets. It just doesn't work, and adding a few hundred thousand draftees who don't want to be there in the first place to join the army of occupation won't make things better. It will make them worse.
Gooood question Bone. I don't believe that a draft will pass a Democratic congress nor are the American people going to be suckered into another military escapade under the threat of terrorism be it real or inflated. Maybe at one time this may have flown by with ease but we have been lied to, mislead, and played for fools by the very people we trusted to take care of our country. Our priorities will have to change and many of our foreign bases in places like Germany and Japan will have to close as we refocus our efforts on the war we have today not the war we had yesterday. It is the inevitable pull back of the empire that is just about due and mainly a consequence of decades of failed foreign policies. Maybe this is more than you were asking for but it is all linked and I have only scratched the surface so far. :hatch:
From a personal view point i think a draft would be a bad idea, over here at one stage we had something called National Service and every now and again the question is raised if it should be reinstated The concensus is that at the moment we have a fully comited and motivated armed services as all the memers are volenteers, if we introduced conscription (Draft to you) the quality of our service personel could be degraded due to those elements who did not wish to be there. I am not saying that all conscripts would be of the complaining 'Why am I here' , 'I want to go home' types but a number would. De Orc
Bush is going to speak at 10:00 EST, 20 Dec 06 on this very subject... Do you still have to register for the Draft at the Post Office when you turn 18 years old? Ben
And the beat goes on, with the same old music we have heard from Moen since he came onto the forum. It's time to ger off of the tack and do something about it, or at least more than running yoour mouth off all the time.
Any way it is looked at you are screwed. Bush realise he lose war of Iraq, now he has to start crusade. Maybe it time for make up new excuse of war let see - Russia supplies energy -no, China has financial hold - no, Korea DPR have nukes - no, damned Cubans, they threaten invade Florida - THIS IS WAR!:mouth:
Matthews would be a more effective interviewer if he actually waited for a response after he asked a question.
Actually there is no need to wait. He already knows what answer he will be receiving from the guests he interviews. That is why he picks these people to interview in the first place.
Guardian, I'll go one more step and say that he doesn't even listen for an answer. He's just thinking about the next question. Some guest should test him on it. When he asks, "Do you think we are winning in Iraq?" the guest should respond, "My zinc mine in Bulgaria was damaged by the tornado." I'll bet Matthews doesn't even notice and just reads the next question.
The paperwork for men (women have never had to enroll in Selective Service) is still out at my local post office, and I think you still have to send it in, although there's no major tracking of it. However, don't try to get a Federal job or a Student Loan without having registered.
Although a significant number of those men that register when they turn 18 don't update there addresses when they move and I believe they have to keep it updated it until they are 25. WHO MUST REGISTER? Does every young man have to register when he turns 18? Just about! Almost all male U.S. citizens regardless of where they live, and male immigrant aliens residing in the U.S., are required to be registered with Selective Service if they are at least 18 years old but are not yet 26 years old. Men who are 26 years old and older are too old to register. Some requirements are shown below: Category All male U.S. citizens born after December 31, 1959, who are 18 but not yet 26 years old, except as noted below. Military-Related Members of the Armed Forces on active duty (active duty for training does not constitute “active duty” for registration purposes) Cadets and Midshipmen at Service Academies or Coast Guard Academy Cadets at the Merchant Marine Academy Students in Officer Procurement Programs at The Citadel, North Georgia College and State University, Norwich University, Virginia Military Institute, Texas A&M University, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University National Guardsmen and Reservists not on active duty Delayed Entry Program enlistees ROTC Student Separatees from Active Military Service, separated for any reason before age 26 Men rejected for enlistment for any reason before age 26 Civil Air Patrol members Aliens** Lawful non-immigrants on visas (e.g., diplomatic and consular personnel and families, foreign students, tourists with unexpired Form I-94, or Border Crossing Document DSP-150) Permanent resident aliens Special (seasonal) agricultural workers (I-688) Special agricultural workers (I-688A) Refugee, parolee, and asylee aliens Undocumented (illegal) aliens Dual national U.S. citizens Confined Incarcerated, or hospitalized or institutionalized for medical reasons Handicapped physically or mentally Able to function in public with or without assistance Continually confined to a residence, hospital, or institution * Must register within 30 days of release unless already age 26, already registered when released, or exempt during entire period age 18 through 25. ** Residents of Puerto Rico, Guam, Virgin Islands, and Northern Mariana Islands are U.S. citizens. Citizens of American Samoa are nationals and must register when their permanent address is in the U.S. This also goes for a national or citizen of the Republic of the Marshall Islands or the Federal States of Micronesia if they live in the U.S. for more than one year for any reason, except as a student or employee of the government of his homeland. NOTE: Immigrants who did not enter the United States or maintained their lawful non-immigrant status by continually remaining on a valid visa unitl after they were 26 years old were never required to register. Also, immigrants born before 1960 who did not enter the United States or maintained their lawful non-immigrant status by continually remaining on a valid visa until after March 29, 1975, were never required to register. Now we know who we are talking about. :goof:
I was born nov 4 1958. and missed that deadline, and just missed vietnam, and I am one of a small group of people who never had to even register for the draft. So I missed Vietnam1 and Vietnam2 (Iraq)
Kind of, but at least you'll always have the Enterprise. I was born exactly one month before you and like you, I nor my younger brother born Dec. 21st (today) ever had to register with the selective service. There was like a 3 year dounut hole between the old system and the current system where nobody had to register. Not that it really matters now.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/21/AR2006122101327_pf.html Agency to Test Military Draft Machinery By KASIE HUNT The Associated Press Thursday, December 21, 2006; 9:45 PM WASHINGTON -- The Selective Service System is planning a comprehensive test of the military draft machinery, which hasn't been run since 1998. The agency is not gearing up for a draft, an agency official said Thursday. The test itself would not likely occur until 2009. Meanwhile, the secretary for Veterans Affairs said that "society would benefit" if the U.S. were to bring back the draft and that it shouldn't have any loopholes for anyone who is called to serve. VA Secretary Jim Nicholson later issued a statement saying he does not support reinstituting a draft. The Selective Service "readiness exercise" would test the system that randomly chooses draftees by birth date and the network of appeals boards that decide how to deal with conscientious objectors and others who want to delay reporting for duty, said Scott Campbell, Selective Service director for operations and chief information officer. "We're kind of like a fire extinguisher. We sit on a shelf" until needed, Campbell said. "Everyone fears our machine for some reason. Our machine, unless the president and Congress get together and say, 'Turn the machine on' ... we're still on the shelf." The administration has for years forcefully opposed bringing back the draft, and the White House said Thursday that its position had not changed. A day earlier, President Bush said he is considering sending more troops to Iraq and has asked Defense Secretary Robert Gates to look into adding more troops to the nearly 1.4 million uniformed personnel on active duty. According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, increasing the Army by 40,000 troops would cost as much as $2.6 billion the first year and $4 billion after that. Service officials have said the Army wants to increase its force by 20,000 to 30,000 soldiers and the Marine Corps would like 5,000 more troops. The unpopular war in Iraq, where more than 2,950 American troops have already died, complicates the task of finding more recruits and retaining current troops _ to meet its recruitment goals in recent years, the Army has accepted recruits with lower aptitude test scores. In remarks to reporters in New York, Nicholson recalled his own experience as a company commander in an infantry unit that brought together soldiers of different backgrounds and education levels. He said the draft "does bring people from all quarters of our society together in the common purpose of serving." Rep. Charles Rangel, a New York Democrat who has said minorities and the poor share an unfair burden of the war, plans to introduce a bill next year to reinstate the draft. House Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi has said that reinstating the draft would not be high on the Democratic-led Congress' priority list, and the White House said Thursday that no draft proposal is being considered. Planning for the Selective Service exercise, called the Area Office Mobilization Prototype Exercise, is slated to begin in June or July of next year for a 2009 test. Campbell said budget cuts could force the agency to cancel the test, which he said should take place every three years but hasn't because of funding constraints. Hearst Newspapers first reported the planned test for a story sent to its subscribers for weekend use. The military drafted people during the Civil War and both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. An agency independent of the Defense Department, the Selective Service System was reincorporated in 1980 to maintain a registry of 18-year-old men, but call-ups have not occurred since the Vietnam War.
Just because the Honorable Mr. Rangel says it, doesn't mean it's true. I read in the Washington Post (the newspaper that originally printed this article) that it's actually middle-class suburban whites that are over-represented in uniform. Minorities and the poor in the military as a whole (percentages when figured for enlisted or commissioned are different) are roughly equal to their national averages
I'm another of those who never had to register (around 6 months older than Moen). Not that it mattered, by the time registration came about again, I'd already been in the Air Force for a year.
