Dig deep Grasshopper. Read the remarks, be the remarks and most of all be the ball (nope last one was Caddyshack). Did I say I would respond? Nope. I believe it was "have at it". Your question is just that. A question. Dig deep into this thread and others. Read between the lines then have a Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich. These can open many doors. On the other hand I may have just posted that for fun. It is up to the posters to decide my friend.
Nahhhh You guys have fun with your Obama thread. I don't care for cut and pastes, press releases that are false & misleading, and question dodging. Especially don't care for having to read between lines. Most of you know me as a pretty straight shooter, I'm not going to play in Obamas web war of propaganda and the koolaide drinking game. See ya's
Level Headed, You are very well read and I'm not "Mr. cut and paste". Fact is we have that ability now and by we I mean you as well. It's all out there. Yes you are right I go out of my way to find false and misleading information then dodge questions. An awesome blanket statement there with smacks of paranoia. I look for truth and DO read between the lines. It's like thinking outside the box dude. Get out of the box for a few and give me a friggin realistic break. If no one ever thought outside the box we'd still be living in caves. On the plus side, maybe with Bin Laden! You will love my next "cut and paste".
Gypsy- I'd like to respond... 1) Dressed nice- The point blew right passed you...Obama is all style, no substance 2) Radical?- What isn't radical about Obama? The hypnotic mantra of Change!! Change!! Change!!...Demonizing our countries free enterprise & major employers...Confiscating the profits of legitimate US businesses...his anti-American, anti-armed forces rhetoric and of course the whacko circle of friends (Wright, Pleger, Ayres, etc) he runs with. 3) The Cheers reference- My source? Uh, the TV show!!! 4) Oh, and big business? Like WalMart, Enron, Verizon, etc, who have outsourced/elimanted many American jobs? The ones who benefit from those handy tax loopholes that let them dodge their share of fiscal responsibility? This one is my favorite!! Do you know why companies leave the country?? Because their ability to compete is eliminated. The government piles on so many taxes that at some point the taxes can no longer be passed on to the consumer. Unions force the employers to pay above market wages and they encourage lower productivity and decrease quality. Taxes & unions...2 darlings of the Liberals...are the real reasons companies leave. Obama needs to understand that we all prosper when business prospers!! "Big Business" creates jobs, pays wages, add value to our 401k's & IRA's, etc!! Sorry...have to run so I have to cut this short...we can continue a little later if you still don't understand.
I appreciate the effort, David. Thank you. Well, at least I got you to admit he has style. LOL! I can also believe you find no substance, and that's just from observing the interactions you've had on these boards. I've read over your past posts and my conclusion is that you wouldn't recognize substance if it jumped in your lap and did a Grade A bump-n-grind. The content of your lectures is a mish-mash of far right wing talking points and non sequiturs liberally sprinkled with fear and conspiracy theories. All the standard O'Lielly and Limpballs daily menu items.... hot off the White House propaganda's presses. Speaking of which, you've provided us with a shining example of that in your very next comment. What'd you do... just copy/paste the FauxNoise headlines into one 'paragraph? Bzzzztttt!!! Wrong! The question was in reference to your comment:His campaign was fashioned after an episode of Cheers where Frasier, out to prove a point about how easily people could be influenced showed that any candidate who dresses nice will get 10% of the vote & if you utter the phrase "change" enough you will get elected. [emphasis mine] I was asking for your source that this was the basis for Obama's campaign. You seem confident in your conclusions. Are you telling me this was merely a baseless assumption and not verifiable fact? It was your assertion, so asking for evidence doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Do you know that you have John McCain, Phil Gramm, Wendy Gramm, Enron, and a rubber-stamping Republican Congress to thank for your $4.00+ per gallon gas and rising food costs? Why would you support a Party that picks your pocket & expects you to smile & thank them while they do it? Talk about blind to one's self-interest! Fiscal conservatives, my Aunt Fannie! Ahhh, and those pesky taxes. The ones that Corporate Pirates don't have to pay because they get a pass for sending jobs overseas? Riiiiiight..... Those pesky taxes that pay for frivolous things like levees, bridges, roads, law enforcement, fire fighting, military, disaster relief, postal service, non-profit hospitals, etc, etc, etc? BTW, the Wall Street Journal found that Obama's tax plan gives a tax cut to the middle class (less than $250,000 per year) that 3x more than McCain's. I'll save my ammo on box stores, telcoms, and unions for another day. I'm sure you'll be more than happy to remind me. Have a peachy day!
I'll chime in again just to stop the BS FauxNoise? Oh, you mean the #1 rated network? Not news network, just network. Why do more Americans watch it than CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, and CNNHL, ABC, NBC and CBS combined? You must mean Faux because they do not buy into the Obama regurgitated rhetoric and they do look thru the Spin? O'Lielly? Limpballs? Again, the liberal standard tactic of name calling when challanged. Your campaign press releases have been proven outright lies and falsehoods, so, typically rathen than counter, just change the subject and call names. Hilarious actually. Again, Limpballs and O'Lielly are the highest rated programs in the respective fields in the nation. Hey, how is old Al Frankens radio show doing? Oh, Sorry, I forgot, Air America is in bankruptcy and Franken was cancelled before they cancelled Randi Rhodes even. Hang on, it gets better $4.00 gas is the Republicans fault? Are you freakin serious? You must be joking or poisened by the Move-On spoonfed koolaide that you are swallowing in gulps. Just this week the Dems again chose not to start drilling and exploration on the coast. The Dems have blocked ANWR, the Dems have taxed gasoline to the hilt ( and Oba-a-a-a-a-ama promises to raise those taxes). Clinton vetoed drilling , we would have that oil by now in our new refinerys that the Dems also blocked. The liberal wacko Democrats have formulated almost 100 different eco-blends ( regulations ) again forcing the added refining costs on to the consumer. ( Please keep us posted on that lawsuit against OPEC that the Democrats have promised ) Just a question...What was the price of gas when Nancy Pelosi took over the house and promised to lower the cost of a barrel of oil? Here, I'll answer it for you....$2.10 national average for unleaded. Did you go to public school? I'll even do the math for you, it has DOUBLED since the Dems took charge. Heck yeah, dodge the truth and blame the Republicans. Save you ammo for the unions as well. I grew up in Detroit and would LOVE to hear your take on the unions. I'll get my Michigan ( Democrat state house, state senate, governor, 2 Democrat US Senators and 8 Democrat ( a majority ) Congresspersons ) figures ready. Foreclosed houses, unemployment, state deficit, high school graduation rates, oh yeah, don't forget the under-indictment Democrat Mayor of Detroit !!! Lets see how the Democrats have done in the union majority, highly taxed and highly regulated state of Michigan. Lets see if we REALLY want one in the Whitehouse who is promising everything Michigan has done. Obama simply cannot be defended without making up false statistics, making false promises, question dodging and name calling. After our union debate, pephaps we can move to the socializing of our heathcare, rather than lowering the costs by tort reform and US/Mexico border enforcement. He sure is good lookin tho !!!
Yup, it sure is. You are absolutely correct. Very good. I can see you're someone who doesn't take things at face value. You actually do the leg work. Forgive my little 'fishing expedition'. Discussions such as these can be very time consuming and I just can't spare the time sparring with folks who just want to trade hollow talking points. You obviously do not fall into that category and I find it refreshing! For the record, I'm not an Obama 'worshipper'. I don't think he's got all the answers and is going to magically heal all our miseries in his first 100 days. (That's a mess that's going to take multiple administrations to detangle...) I'm supporting Obama because from the research I've done, he's got, imo, better proposals to the most pressing issues than McCain does. Hell, I started off the primary season as a Kucinich backer. By the time my primary vote rolled around, he wasn't an option. So I've actually moved to the 'center'. That would be a total of bills since Jan 2005 (not 2007), which was when he was sworn in. This was the part of your comments that sent me off on my little 'project'. I got to wondering how many other freshmen Senators had legislation that made it into law. Come to find out, out of 19 new officials from the last two Senate elections (when Obama won his seat), only 4 have had success in getting 5 bills fully enacted. Two were to rename federal buildings, one was for modernizing a VA facility, one concerned interstate fire-fighting, and the last was an appropriations bill. Also, with a tally of 65, Obama is the most prolific writer of both 'Classes' and is followed closely by Ken Salazar, who's racked up 63 during the same time span. My response has taken so long because I was wading through all the introduced bills - there are a LOT! - to see what sorts of issues they addressed. Granted, there are lots of local items for each Senator, but it seems to me that Obama is consistently focused on making things better for the average Joe as opposed to the lobbyist's darlings. I'll check that out. Thanks! I was using www.opencongress.org for my stats. I like how user friendly it is. I like VoteAbroad because they update so frequently and I find their graphs/maps easy to understand. I use them in conjunction with a couple other sites to get a better view of the bigger picture. Take it easy and don't let all this brouhaha soak up your enjoyment in life. It ain't worth it, if you lose sight of the bright side of things in process. Next time you feel your blood pressure starting to rise, go find something to do that makes you smile for at least a half an hour. You'll thank yourself later. I promise! Ciao for now!
Need to get some sleep Level Headed but a quick "liberal, standard tactic" reply first. Fox news. Yes, they are great for spinning their views to a vastly uninformed audience. Like watching the The Enquirer but it's "live"! It's great that you can back them up with the ratings of a vastly moronic audience but what about the other networks. Seriously dude! I know you "have an open mind". Remember? Mine is shut because you said so. Do they EVER offer any truth? Should I be condemned as an idiot for watching CSPAN as well? As for O'Reilly and Limbaugh (did I spell it right?). Yes, people have been watching and/or listening to them for years. Mainly captive audiences. Think about it for just a teeny little second. Limbaugh is radio and if O'Reillly starts getting upstaged he "cuts the mike". Yes, VERY informative stuff there. Start watching Keith Olberman. Yes, it IS an opposite slant. He has no guests other than those that support his views. He IS, HOWEVER, honest about it and routinely kicks Bill Os butt in ratings. Funny you didn't mention him. Thinking Bill Moyers and Keith Olbrman should have a broadcast meeting with Rush and Bill. Oh yeah, Rusn and Bill wouldn't show up would they.
Here's cut and paste for you Clembo. Remember, I like FACTS, not emotional hopes and dreams. But, dont stop dreaming, I once dreamed ( as a child ) of being an astronaut. Closest I got was engineering gas turbine engines for Honeywell. http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/05/16/oreilly-vs-olbermann-through-thursday-may-15/3801 http://tvbythenumbers.com/2007/09/21/oreilly-vs-olbermann-the-ratings Routinely? Routinely what? What is a " captive " audience anyways? I was not aware they forced prisoners to watch or listen to Limpballs or O'Lielly, but I do know Sheriff Joe Arpiao forces inmates to watch CSPAN, Disney and the Weather Channel. .
Golly gee whillickers you're right and I'm wrong again. Maybe YOU shoud run for Pres? Proof is in the pudding. THAT many idiots will watch Bill O spout his crap and cut the mike if the opposition start to make a point. (Typical Liberal "dodge and run" here for the uninformed)
Just the facts, man. Thats all. I am married to a lawyer ( and a rare conservative one at that ). Her golden rule's of debate and cross are these: Have your ducks in a row. Study the subject. Study the subject again. Have documentable evidence that cannot be disputed. Study the subject again. And rule # 1 is: NEVER ASK A QUESTION THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO !!
Oh, you guys kill me! I wish I had the extra time to do all the 'net surfing, MSNBC-watching "research" Gypsy does but the fact is, if I have a few extra minutes to watch TV or get on the computer it is quite a rarity. I'll tell you how I come to my conclusions- from watching the debates (I took the time to watch every minute of every Dem & Republican debate), talking to people I encounter, involving myself in the process, listening to radio call-in shows (both left & right) when I have the chance and actually thinking/pondering for myself....some of you should try the thinking part sometime. I think what Gypsy & his campaign fear the most is someone who refuses to fall under Obama's spell even after hitting them with the "change" word a thousand times & promising to make our lives better by making decisions for us. If you don't see by now that taxation, unionization & excessive regulation are the primary drivers to companies re-locating overseas, the Libs & DNC have done their snow job effectively. Still waiting for anything I said earlier to be de-bunked!!
Funny, my words exactly. Along with: Never ask someone to do something which you wouldn't do yourself. These two tenets helped me IMMEASURABLY for the 21 years I was in the US Military. On more than one occasion in some pretty intense situations in far-off lands as well. Just some random thoughts...
You seem to find plenty of time to hang around here. In other words, people make the time to do the things they want if the desire is strong enough. Obviously, one of us has chosen to invest more energy into their civic obligations than the other. You mean the debates that were basically 'gotcha' fests? I'll give you credit for sitting through them. Not a lot of policy information detailed, but there were some kernels that slipped through. (I especially enjoyed Dennis Kucinich - when they let him have a few minutes - who was quite good at keeping his answers focused and factual.) No comment on the folks you talk to, since I don't know any of them. I would be curious to see if it's a true back and forth conversation or merely a lecture on why the other person is wrong if they happen not to agree with you. And, of course, the radio call in shows. I can probably guess what the right wing shows are, but seeing as how there aren't that many, I'd have to be skeptical if you're getting a truly left wing show. I'd even be willing to bet you have Rush pre-set on one of your car radio buttons. You go right ahead with your thinking & pondering. Try adding a touch of logic to the equations and quit taking everything the Neo-Cons are saying as true at face value. Oh, and I'm quite confident in my thinking abilities. That's what makes me ask questions and dig for sources. You ought to try that sometime, if you can fit it into your list of priorities. See, that's what illogical thinking will get you. It's not Obama that's the 'sensation'. It's that the average, everyday Joe or Jane has found a way to make our will known and our voices heard. We The People are speaking. If you can't recognize that, then you've totally missed the core point of the Obama message. This is such a convoluted load of crap that I don't even know where to begin. Again with the Rush/Billo headlines with no backing/source material. At this point, I'm not going to waste any bandwidth trying to detangle it. It would take 30 mega size posts, and quite honestly, I have my doubts you'd even read it. I'll just bet you are.... /snark. My guess is that what you're doing is skimming the posts for topics that trip your trigger so you have a 'fresh' subject to pontificate about. I'm not here to do your homework for you, so if you want a serious discussion (you know, the two-way kind?), then pick a topic and we'll see what happens. If you're only interested in blanket pronouncements and self-congratulations, then have at it. I'll be happy to oblige in either case.
Gee, David, miss me, did you? Well, it is flattering to know you've been thinking about me. Are you trying to make me blush....? I'll try to not be so neglectful in the future, k?
This is too funny. The argument FOR Obama cannot be won. There is NO backup on this guy that cannot be proven false or misleading. What he does promise has been proven ineffective by history. The PRO Obama argument cannot be won. Period. At least some here acknowledge this and have admitted it's a gamble for " change". How can the Obama followers, supporters and members of his flock even take him at his word? His recent flip flop on campaign finance has flown under the radar ( for now), he outright lied to everybody. He states he has to fight the McCain machine and the McCain 527's , meanwhile, his #1 funder, George Soros Move-On is a 527 attacking MCCain with silly neg ads. When challanged, the name calling starts. Brillohead. Boring. Perhaps the Obama webwar folks should ask for some fresh material to recite ???
So lets see...cutting & pasting doesn't work...changing the subject doesn't work...now personal attacks? Your side can do better than that, can't they?? Obviously, one of us has chosen to invest more energy into their civic obligations than the other. How could you possibly know what I do? Trolling left-wing propaganda sites is very low on my list You mean the debates that were basically 'gotcha' fests I thought this was the forum for candidates to openly discuss their views & plans for the country No comment on the folks you talk to, since I don't know any of them. I would be curious to see if it's a true back and forth conversation or merely a lecture on why the other person is wrong if they happen not to agree with you. Wrong again...I love to hear what folks think & believe...it's just the cut & paste approach that loses me...I would rather discuss this with people than be unindated by what a website tries to explain away And, of course, the radio call in shows I would be willing to bet you listen a lot more than I do...I get a few minutes here & there but I do try to listen to liberal radio too..the problem is the shows are hard to find & on satellite they tend to get vulgar!!It's not Obama that's the 'sensation'. It's that the average, everyday Joe or Jane has found a way to make our will known and our voices heard. We The People are speaking This is exactly what I take issue with...when the glitz & pep rally wear off & the truth really comes out, The People tend to see through the guy...at least that's what I see out there!! This is such a convoluted load of crap that I don't even know where to begin. Again with the Rush/Billo headlines with no backing/source material. At this point, I'm not going to waste any bandwidth trying to detangle it The truth is you simply can't argue the point. My opinion doesn't come from any influence other than my real world experience!!
