It amazes me that people are looking at Pearl Harbor today without looking at the times of that day. It can be debated within reason how much did Roosevelt or anyone within Navy Intelligence did or did not know or were able to piece together. It can also be debated on how much did Roosevelt and the various intelligence departments of that day believed that Japan was trying to keep peace with our nation with their delegation engaging in peace/trade talks up to the time of the attack. It can also be debated on what could the US Navy do anyway. They were no match for the Japanese Task Force that was sent against them at that time and even if one does look at intercepted messages, we had no idea where they were going and which message to believe. Misdirection used by the allied forces at D-day was also used by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. Remember this was a time of delayed communication. This was a time before we had eyes in the sky. Back then, a plane would fly out for a look about only as far as its gas tank would allow it. This was also a time when our military was stripped and was not organized for war.
Partly true, but there is plenty of proof and a lot of evidence that FDR did know and didn't do anything. Plus, if they had known, they probably could have fought off the Japanese, and in any case, it would have made a huge difference in the fight if they had known. Plus, the Japanese were pretty much forced to attack us. FDR and his government were doing everything they could to annoy and anger the Japanese, who didn't really want a war with us. The truth is out there, folks. CraigG
This is a preposterous statement when viewed in the abject form, but when you appreciate some contemporary commentary by Japanese such as Admiral Yamamoto, they realised that they were in a do or die situation. Admiral Yamamoto had spent quite a bit of his early education in the USA during the 1920's and had a probable favorable opinion of the USA as a result. There is a quote attributed to him, that he stated "Now we have awaken the sleeping giant". Pearl Harbor did not achieve it's objective of destroying the USA naval fleet based there, yes there was unimaginable destruction, however the main objectives, the USA Naval Aircraft Carriers were not in port, but on manoeuvres at see and were as a result not destroyed, these Aircrafts carriers were thus available in the fleet during the famous and determinate naval actions at Midway Islands and the battle of The Coral Sea. Had the Japanese navy achieved the destruction of these carriers as planned at Pearl Harbor, the USA would have indeed been crippled. The death and destruction achieved at Pearl Harbor hardened the Americans resolve and joined them with USSR and United Kingdom in the struggle against the fascist of Germany, Italy and Japan. Admiral Yamamoto would suffer at the hands of the USA later in the war when his aircraft was downed by USA P-38 lightning in Papua New Guinea.
Good points Krasnaya Vityaz, I would think that the Naval Staff knew of the possibility of attack which is why the aircraft carriers, the only modern ships at Pearl, were sent out. But to state that we knew what day or what time or could have prevented the attack or allowed the attack to happen is really reaching. Little known fact: Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese a second time after December 7th. It was on March 4th and only two sea plane bombers were used but the point is that the US couldn't stop it and didn't know it was coming even if they expected another attack might be in the works.
I will only add this one small comment and that will be all I'll say on this subject. A certain Colonel who was in charge of military affairs in Pearl Harbor was given information reguarding an impending attact. This was at least 12 hours prior to the actual bombing of Pearl Harbor. He took the information and went to a party that evening and then home to bed, without out issuing orders to anyone about the impending threat. The next morning they got hit. Had the Colonel done want was expected and followed through with preporations, he would have been a General after the war. As it was; He ended up in charge of F.E. Warren Military Base as a Colonel. frozen in rank until his retirement. Yes they did have warning and did nothing about it. This is a fact!
So with the Japanese Miltary machine marching thru Asia and it's navy at sea this Colonel did not take a warning seriously despite military analysists stating that if the Japanese did attack it would be at dawn for we could not see them at night approaching with fly overs. Sounds a lot like the people today who do not take the muslim threat seriously despite warnings, facts, and most surprising of all, despite that we were attacked many times already including 911. If some people can not take 911 seriously and see it for what it was, then we have a lot of civilian Colonels today who are nothing more then crazy loons. What we need is for our birds to be eagles or better yet war hawks.
ok armchair historians here is a question: Was the USA out of the depression (for the most part) in 1940?
I think we are in a very similar situation today. The Muslim-Japanese comparison makes sense to me. In both cases we were attacked by an enemy with no realistic chance of ultimate victory. In both cases, the American people were content to ignore the impending problem. In both cases there were glaring examples of bureaucratic ineptitude, perhaps even criminal neglect. I find it absolutely amazing that a large percentage of Americans fail to appreciate the "Pearl Harbor" nature of the 9-11-01 terrorist attacks. The attacks of 9-11-01 were not even the initial attacks, just the biggest and most damaging to date. Plus, I am even more amazed that the Democrat leadership in this Country is more concerned about recovering political power in Washington D.C. than defeating a sworn mortal enemy. Even FDR did not have to deal with that unhappy reality. Our second major "Pearl Harbor" ought to finally solidify American publis opinion. It might require the detonation of a suitcase nuclear device in Los Angeles to wake up the woefully ignorant and lethargic American public. Something is bound to happen sooner or later. Incidently, did not the Mexican illegals pick an inconvenient time to display a lot of anti-American behavior. That Mexican situation will further complicate the issue of Islamic terrorism. Bureaucratic ineptitude and public ignorance is eternal an omni-present.
Prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor, the US had been backing China against the expansion of the East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere by Japan. The US government was pretty committed to China at that point and really couldn't back down, or at least thought they couldn't. What seems to have happened is that two groups of proud men, both sides unable to back down, were playing a game of political chicken. The US made a number of demands on Japan that, in hindsight, could not be accepted; but didn't seem to realize it at the time. My understanding was that the US government was fairly sure there would be an attack, but they didn't really know where it would be. The comparisons to 9/11 seem apt. Also, to clarify a minor point someplace above it should be noted that Hitler declared war on the US. So both Japan and Germany pretty much forced the US to enter the war at that point, like it or not. Either way, Roosevelt got his wish.
Depends on how you define it, but most would say "no." Unemployment was still high (near 20%, I believe). The only thing that really dragged us out of the Depression was the armaments needs of the Allies.
Don't forget these guys when you mention December 7th, 1941... http://www.northchinamarines.com/ Bone
Your comments reminded me of yet another Japanese-Muslim comparison. Japan was slaughtering Chinese people and others on a wholesale basis prior to the Pearl Harbor attack. The American public was largely looking the other way. Japan was truly obscene. Similarly, radical Muslims have been slaughtering innocent people throughout the world for decades. The entire civilized world, with the exception of Israel, Russia, and Serbia avoided dealing with the Islamic menace until 9-11-01. I am certain that there are even more similarities between the Japanese and Islamic threats.
The March 4th 1942 attack by a couple of seaplanes on Pearl Harbor was not the only attack by the Japanese on American soil, let us not forget that the Japanese also occupied the westernmost islands of the Alaskan Aleutian chain, notably the island of Attu. Historians continue to debate why the Japanese invaded the Aleutian islands, but it is most probably to cause a diversion for the USA from the main action in the South Pacific. It also diverted much energy, planning and money to building the Al-Can highway so that USA forces in Alaska could be easily supplied. In early 1942 Japanese submarines and submarine launched aircraft attacked oil refineries on the west coast of the USA in California. The damage was minimal and the story was not reported widely by the media then because of the perception that an "invasion panic" would become a problem in the western USA. One interesting fact is that USA merchant ships traversing the Northern Pacific Ocean were flying USSR flags so that the Japanese would not board or attack them, this prior to the USSR declaring hostilities in August 1945 against Japan.
As I'm sure you knew, both Hawaii and Alaska weren't admitted to the union until 1959, so the term American soil is a gray area. Bone
Don't know where you get your 'facts' but the Merchant Marine ships that we escorted across to Russia all had American flags flying. And this was well before any August of 1945 date, as this would have put the war at its closing and by then no one was worried about the Japanese fleet.
That is what I thought. The Russian flag-flying thing sounds crazy. Pride alone would preclude this action. In fact, I am not sure that the Japanese Navy EVER made a significant impact on American merchant ships. The American submarine service definitely raised hell with the Japanese. If my faulty memory serves me, American submarines sunk more Japanese ships than all the allied surface ships combined. I believe that American submariners were on a par with much vaunted German submarine crews.
Ah let us not forget the USA navy did not have control of the Northern Pacific ocean during early 1942, otherwise how would the Japanese have taken the Alaskan islands of Attu and Kiska? USA navy was busy at Midway, and Hawaiian Islands. These islands were held by the Japanese for not long as soon the USA saw the danger in having Japanese bases within striking distance of North America. USSR and Japan had an uneasy peace during that time, they had previously engaged in battle in Manchuria during 1938-9 and then had a truce and peace treaty so that USSR's security in the east was "secure". For this reason and belief that the Germans were a greater threat to USSR, USSR did not engage in further conflict with Japan until after the secession of hostilies with Germany, and in fact, after USA dropped atom bombs on Japan forcing their surrender. USSR occupied the Kurile Islands chain north of Japan and now Russia still has them, much to the chagrin of the Japanese.
