Should The 2nd Amendment be Repealed?

Why worry about the second amendment if the rest of them are all ignored, laws re-written around them, or otherwise obliterated?
I like being angry....keeps me aware of the filth around me.

 

The liberal elite trying to eliminate the 1st Amendment is foffer enough for a seperate thread. Let's focus on their attempts to deprive us of the 2nd Amendment right in this thread, shall we?

 

QUOTE=tomcorona;287429]Why worry about the second amendment if the rest of them are all ignored, laws re-written around them, or otherwise obliterated?
I like being angry....keeps me aware of the filth around me.[/QUOTE]

Tom, you bring out a point which is relevant in that at least in my mind when GB2nd ( I voted for him) rammed the Patriot Act down our throats during a time of crisis, it essentially gutted the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We lost many freedoms under the guise of being safe. Im an ex-soldier that was involved in anti-terrorism long before 9/11. We are no safer now then before that act, I can assure you. It just allowed the goverment to do what they want. On the otherhand that is precisely why every citizen should have the right to keep & bear arms.

Steve

 

You focus on literacy and I'll focus where I choose.

 

Tom, you bring out a point which is relevant in that at least in my mind when GB2nd ( I voted for him) rammed the Patriot Act down our throats during a time of crisis, it essentially gutted the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We lost many freedoms under the guise of being safe. Im an ex-soldier that was involved in anti-terrorism long before 9/11. We are no safer now then before that act, I can assure you. It just allowed the goverment to do what they want. On the otherhand that is precisely why every citizen should have the right to keep & bear arms.

Steve[/QUOTE]

As you said yourself, the government does exactly what it wants. The unPatriotic criminal act is a prime example. Do you really think the fact that you have your shotgun and handgun within arms reach that it's really going to do you any good once the government makes up it's mind to do something? REALLY? When more than half of the high fructose corn syrup consuming ostrich sheep people can't even use their brains to analyze any facet of 911 for themselves? Do you really? Good luck with your with your pea shooters but I'd watch out for the microwave weapons, the chemically generated lines of poison that used to be called clouds, and the foreign troops being imported and trained here everyday if I were you.

 

As you said yourself, the government does exactly what it wants. The unPatriotic criminal act is a prime example. Do you really think the fact that you have your shotgun and handgun within arms reach that it's really going to do you any good once the government makes up it's mind to do something? REALLY? When more than half of the high fructose corn syrup consuming ostrich sheep people can't even use their brains to analyze any facet of 911 for themselves? Do you really? Good luck with your with your pea shooters but I'd watch out for the microwave weapons, the chemically generated lines of poison that used to be called clouds, and the foreign troops being imported and trained here everyday if I were you.[/QUOTE]

Tom I agree with you that by myself I might as well use the weapons on myself, rather then expect to win against Uncle Sam. I am an ex-Special Forces soldier. What I mean is that should one decided to join a "well regulated militia group" you are automatically a terrorist.
Look at what happened at Ruby Ridge, he was ex-Special Forces. Then we have Waco, I will be the first to say David Koresh (if I spelled that right) was a mentally ill nut job. I am a weapons expert by training. They claimed he was converting semi-auto rifles to full auto. Instead of knocking on his door and serving a search warrent, they claimed he was a heavily armed extremist and they assaulted the compound killing about 70 innocent children by fire. Prior to the incident Koresh would go to town regularly to pick up mail and supplies, unarmed. They could have yanked his chain anytime without any shootouts or burning buildings and subsequent deaths on both sides. The US Army was utilized there despite its use being illegal on US soil. The goverment has been out of control sense about 1945 as far as I can tell, I am a military and political historian, no degree, just constant study. I think the current administration is expediting our countrys path to socialism. Somebody has to wake up and do something, but my honest feeling is that its to late already.

Steve

 

Steve,

My younger brother was also accidentally shot when he was 18. He was shot in the abdomen with a 12 gauge pellet load from 8 feet away which cut his stomach in half. Fortunately, he lived and is doing fine today. I have always had respect for guns as tools as opposed to those people who see guns as a way to make themselves a few inches taller. You know the types I am talking about. My family members hunt just about anything that moves and I would never want to see hunting made illegal. Most guns that are used in crimes are not manufactured for the purpose of hunting. They are either used for committing crimes or used to protect someone from being the victim of a crime. It just seems like common sense that eliminating these types of guns from both sides would decrease crime exponentially and it can be done while preserving the right to hunt for sportsman.

As far as the “Doctor” moniker goes, I have never claimed to be a doctor of any kind. I have actually denied such an educational attainment in several posts but it seems labeling me as some sort of academic professor allows the right wingers here to conveniently pigeon-hole me into their narrow perceptions of academia and their long-held preconceptions of the of the political Left. It doesn’t bother me, heck I get a promotion from just having a couple of master’s degrees to having a PhD. I could have completed the doctoral program but it wouldn’t get me anything I don’t already have except a couple of extra letters after my name. So I hope this puts that silly fallacy to rest. I’m sure it won’t for most of the right wingers here in any case.

 

If you can't keep guns out of the hands of guys like this, what chance do you ever have of controlling gun violence in this country? Here is a convicted felon shooting at police officers while wearing body armor all because he disagreed with Left wing policies that the majority of Americans voted for.

Monday, Jul. 19, 2010

FBI joins probe into suspected CA freeway shooter
The Associated Press

OAKLAND, Calif. -- The FBI has joined an investigation into the case of a convicted felon who opened fire on California Highway Patrol officers after a traffic stop.
Authorities say 45-year-old Byron Christopher Williams was heavily armed and wearing a bulletproof vest when he shot at police Sunday on an Oakland freeway. Williams also was wounded in the shootout, but expected to survive.
Authorities say the FBI joined the investigation to probe Williams' background and behavior, as well as the contents of a diary authorities found in his car. The notebook was titled "California" and removed by a bomb squad robot.

Williams' mother, Janice Williams, told local media that her son was angry he could not find a job as a parolee and upset about Congress' "left-wing agenda."

http://www.modbee.com/2010/07/19/1258936/fbi-joins-probe-into-suspected.html

 

Moen1305,
I am happy you responded, my best wishs for your brother, I miss mine all the time. You can take down your sign, Im willing to take responsibility for my part of the GB fiasco. I used to be a republican prior to his charades, but let me be clear in that I think the whole US Goverment is a charade. Its no longer by the people and for the people. I think that addtional gun bans and regulation of any type only weaken law abiding citizens. I live in NJ we have more gun laws on the books then C.A. I can take a ride to Newark NJ and get an AK 47 for about 900 bucks in an hour. The only people that have trouble getting guns are people who follow the law. I think its important that the goverment be afraid of the people, not the other way around. Further restrictions are just not necessary in my opinion. And as you mentioned a firearm does make some people grow 3 inches taller, its just my experience that it is a trigger happy Cop just as often as anyone.

Thanks,

Steve

 

The guy is a crack pot. He didnt have any trouble finding a gun. And while its a terrible crime its really quite simplistic. Why does the FBI have to investigate this nut job? The locals dont have the expertise? Probably not. Im sure they have a SWAT team just chompping at the bit to blow away people without trying non violent tactics first. Why is it we never see the hundreds of cases a year where the use of a firearm proves very beneficial to its owner? The left owns, and runs, the media is my opinon. Its plain to see. If wrong please tell me the error of my ways.

Steve

 

Thanks for your well wishes. My brother is 45 these days and lucky to be on this earth at all. I know what you're saying about trigger happy cops too. I live near Chicago and Chicago cops have to be some of the most corrupt police in the country. I trust the criminals in Chicago more than I trust the cops. At least you know where you stand with the criminals. I have a nephew that was tortured in New Orleans by the police while he was down there working to clean up after hurricane Katrina. At the same time I recognize that my local police are great officers, great neighbors, and great friends of the community. I can't condemn the entire profession because of places like New Orleans and Chicago.

Although I share much your distain for politicians, weakening our public representatives to the point that large multinationals can fill the power vacuum isn't necessarily a good idea either. What we need is a government strong enough to lookout for our interests and the commons as well as keeping powerful corporations in check. I don't know if you realize the power a large multinational organization can bring to bear on foreign policy and domestic policy but you only need to look at the release of the Lockerbie bomber by Scotland to see how powerful they really are. Remember when he was released they said he was dying. Seems he is still alive 11 months later and BP secured drilling rights from Libya shortly after his release. The man should be rotting in prison instead free after the crimes he committed. We are moving much closer to a Corporatocracy than a government dictatorship and nobody seems to be worrying about the real problem of the corrupting influence of corporations but they are completely fixated on the power of the government. I seriously doubt that if any of my sons went into the military and received orders to shoot civilians, they would comply. However, if a corporation hired a bunch of mercenaries to shoot civilians, I have no doubt that they'd do so in an instant. The reason our military draws it's recruits from all sectors of society is for the protection of the civilian population. It is our best insurance policy against a government takeover. I'd worry less about the government and more about the people you don't elect that control your life already. That's how I feel anyway.

 

It isn't an issue of, they have guns, we have guns. It is an issue of access and availability. This country is flooded with guns. How can we arm law abiding citizens without arming criminals? If there was a check on the supply of guns it might be possible but this society is awash in guns and any number of people willing to sell guns for a profit. As long as there is money to be made off of the sale of guns without any culpability for the seller, everyone will have access to guns, even the criminals. If the NRA has proven nothing else, they have proven that you can’t arm law abiding citizens without arming criminals at the same time.

 

Moen,

The criminals will always have access to guns no matter how many laws you pass. They will obtain them through the same channels that they get their drugs. Gun laws will only prohibit law abiding citizens from being able to get them. Do you really want to live in a society where the only people who have guns are the cops and the criminals.

 

Moen1305,
In my mind your speaking about all the lobbyists and other special interest groups that go directly to our representatives and make make *****s of them all. I live a sheltered life, reading the newspapers or watching network TV just makes me ill. I would be interested in any examples of these people who pull the strings in our lives.

Steve

 

I agree that gun laws do nothing to keep guns out of those people's hands that wish to commit a crime especially if they've never committed a crime in the past and just want to go out in a "blaze of glory". We have to fundamentally change how we view gun ownership instead of pushing for as many guns in society as possible on the basis of the 2nd Amendment. Gun laws only prick at the edges of the problem without preventing much of anything.

 

If you understand that gun laws do not prevent gun related crime then I don't understand your desire to repeal the 2nd amendment. It seems that you would be better off seeking programs that support education regarding guns and better regulatory initiatives.

We require people to have and renew a driver's licenses every four years but there is no proficiency testing for gun ownership. I would support a call for gun licenses that require education about gun safety, maintenance, & gun storage as well as a proficiency test to prove that the person can safely handle any weapon registered to that individual. Stricter requirements like this will lessen gun related accidents and allow for stricter laws for those not in compliance with the gun regulations.

Instead of banning guns, simply make more hoops to jump through to own them legally, and make the penalties for illegal gun ownership more severe. This type of solution will not infringe on the Constitiution and might actually have a positive impact on the gun related problems facing our society.

 

I've never called for a ban on guns at least I hope I never have. The repeal of the 2nd Amendment (in my opinion an outdated concept) would only be for the purposes of enacting a new more modern concept of gun ownership. Lets face it, the 2nd Amendment was written at time when this country was still pretty untamed. The only wild animals left are us. We have changed and progressed as a society but our 18th century laws are causing 21st century problems. I don't think the goal should be to ban guns but rather to change our approach to gun ownership. That may mean that some people like felons, mentally incompetent people, inner city dwellers, or whoever may not be able to own a gun. I don't really know the ultimate make-up of the final legislation but I know that we are hamstrung by the 2nd Amendment as it is written today. I think that we basically need a new approach.

 

As I posted earlier, this is the oldest con in the far left liberal elite playbook. Dr moe claims to support our gun ownership rights, the 2nd amend & the entire Constitution then proceeds by bashing these institutions as archaic, 18th century antiques implying we need to throw it all out & start anew...new language, new everything. He may not have said it in so many words but don't mistake the intent. Dr moe make is well-practiced in the art of far left politics and the way they chip away little-by-little at our lonh held values & beliefs....dd you catch the way he injected "urban dwellers" into the groups of people he believes should be banned from owning guns? We already know & agree that felons & mental patients have their 2nd amend rights restricted but he has subtley added the very broad "urban dwellers" to the list as if they are obviously in the same classification as felons and mental patients...this is the same rhetoric that allowed the DC & Chicago bans to be enacted. Think about it, outrageous bans have been passed so the libs are gaining that foothold. What's next?
Dr moe should at least have the gumption to be honest in his opposition to gun rights.