The Dumbing down of America

I never said one thing about faith...some people have faith that they make up and Evolution is one thing that was made up....by a man that was also a guy that killed for the fun of killing...in some parts of books that Darwin wrote he told about going out to just kill birds and such for the fun of it....---the "facts" that he said he had have been proven wrong many times....by people that are into Evolution and people that are not...
As I said....I can't tell it as good as the guys at AIG....so if you have any questions...ask them and then let us know what they say.

and I guess the evolutionists don't have bias???

Speedy

 

Of course evolutionists have bias, but that bias is founded in science. The bible does not have a scientific basis, so they are biased against it. Most evolutionists I know believe in god, and many of them are christians too.

 

Sorry, Speedy, but I gotta agree with what was said. Although this site seems to be very "enlightened" (pardon the pun), all of its arguments are still based on faith in a higher power, which cannot be proven factual, and therefore, their facts are nullified. All they've truly done is seek to catagorically put down each argument from evolutionist theory.

Personally, I find it very difficult to believe in creationist theory in the sense that your website professes for two reasons:

1. It's wholly not plausible or logical to suggest that once upon a time, an all-knowing, all-seeing, completely benevolent being decided to snap his fingers and out pops homo sapiens, animals, stars, planets, etc, etc, etc. No such thing can be done, as your own site suggested: living matter cannot be created out of nonliving matter.

2. There is many times more evidence to suggest in favor of evolutionary theory than there is for creationism. In effect, there are no facts or evidence for the latter theory. All evidence for this is speculation by word of mouth, which, as we all know, is highly ineffective at protecting facts.

The way I see this particular issue (creationism v. evolutionary theory) is that there may be some basis in fact in the Bible - I believe evidence has been found to suggest that certain people named as prophets in the Bible were at one point alive (like John the Baptist, for example). But, like Greek and Roman tales of how the world was created by a multitude of Gods, which was indeed fiction to explain how their world worked since they did not have the technology to explain it (for example, the stories of Zeus, which explained why there was lightning). In that same light, I believe that parts of the very early Old Testament in the Bible (like Genesis and Exodus) and stories like the creation of the world and man, were utilized in much the same way by the early Hebrews: to explain how their world worked (in the example I gave, the story could be to explain how the world came to be).

The simple truth is, there's just no evidence of creationism beyond an ideology that isn't tangible and can never be proven.

Please feel free to tear apart my argument now at your leasure.
~AJ

 

You know I always find that funny....so many people think you have to believe in GOD and go to church if you believe in Creation...that is not the case...first let me say that I do go to church and believe in GOD and think that more should think of that, but I also know some people that don't go to church and still go with Creation...

Two things AJ--First, I can't change your mind....but I can just show what I have learned and what I hope you will learn.

#2....Why don't you email Mr Ham and ask the same thing you posted....just cut and copy it. I have listened to DVD's with people from both sides and it just make "cents" for people to listen to it...

And you are not alone...as it is pointed out many times...people read the Bible but only think part of it is real....why? Because they are not open enough to explain how it happened (It's kindof like this....my dad thought this way and Grand-dad did so I will...why look into it...they must have been right....--you need to search things out)--and even I learn something about it more and more so I can't even explain everything and never will be able to.

I can't and I won't...it is up to YOU to find out the truth and to decided what you will be believing...but just keep what I have said in your mind and please do email Mr Ham....he can do much better than I.

Speedy

 

Faith Hill is really hot.
but I wouldn't monkey around with her.
We both married.
and we both are not from apes.

Look at your fingers. You have webbing in between them.
I never saw other primates with that.
Any one know?

 

This evelution/creation argument points out that we need to keep in mind that there are many people whose world view is drastically different from our own. With that in mind we need to be tolerant of eachother. As for the idea that we teach creation in the science classroom I doubt if even Speedy embraces that idea. What we teach in our public schools is a comprimise, if you want to help develop curriculum join a committee that does that, but beware it is a lot of hard work.

 

As far as Faith Hill goes, I don't believe either you or I have anything to worry about with respect to our wives.

I hope your palm reading isn't the sole reason for your disbelief of evolutionary theory. Curious though, do you also not believe in natural selection, survival of the fittest, and the entire fossil record?

 

Sorry for posting 4times my comment was not THAT good

 

That's the first time I have seen 5 posts in a row : ) Computer must not have been responding.

 

Why not??...we are there to teach our kids things they need to know...and since we teach the evolutionary theory why not Creation.
That being said....there are lots that I don't think needs to be in the schools and there is some that I think needs to be added...I know I'm still in school (Last year of Home School) and I think we also have some other members that are in school....so I'm sure they will agree...there are some classes that are way good and some don't help a bit...

Speedy

 

Moen what fossil record. Humans have always lived along the seacoast and rivers and much of that area is now under water. The fossil record that is being used is seriously flawed.

I think that there is something to the theory of evolution but like any other theory it needs to be tested and perhaps revised. Unfortunally it is being preached as fact and not open to question. That is not science but leftist fundamentalism.

 

I really don't think the rate of pay has much to do with the other factors you posted. If 100% of the students went to college, it was because their parents encouraged, expected, maybe even forced or bribed them to go and had the financial means to send them to college. They were already concerned enough to spend 10's of thousands on their child's education in the first place. The rate of pay of the teacher seems somewhat (if not totally) irrelevant.

Ahhh, and exactly what is "proper English" (English is often capitalized). Proper according to whom? You? Some other person who says so? How dare people speak in a way unlike that way (the wrong way).

See above. Everyone has their own notions regarding what should and shouldn't be taught, and when it should or could be taught. The purpose of education (in my opinion), is not to try to teach everything, but rather to provide students with basic skills (I'll leave that generalization up to you to figure out) and teach students how to find information on any subject and teach themselves what they want/need to know.

The nerve of that teacher thinking that 11 year olds weren't old enought to be subjected to stacks of naked, smoking bodies being piled into mass graves! He/She should be fired. Sorry, but me thinks that wasn't appropriate for show and tell either.

That must be why they did away with the Dick and Jane readers that many of us learned to read with and opted for insanely difficult programs such as Open Court? We must have been doing too well on the tests. I've posted (on another forum) part of these tests (3rd grade level) and had adults (you know, we smarter ones than the kids of today), and they did NOT do well. Hard to imagine why 7 year olds wouldn't be doing well now ain't it?

She didn't know the South lost the Civil War? Next you'll tell me that she doesn't know where food comes from, what nuclear power is all about, what goes into making steel, how is a house constructed, etc. I think I learned U.S. History in 9th or 10th grade. Did it ever occur to you that she didn't know who won the Civil War because no one ever told her, nor was it a part of the curriculum that she was being taught (so far)?

OK, by now you may have guessed that I'm an educator, working in California no less (one of those overpaid teacher types). There are a lot of arbitrary elements to education. Things such as what should be taught, when, and how to measure whether students have learned the information. What is passing, what is failing, what is adequate growth. The list is unending. the amount of variables is unending. The amount of people who think they have the answer or think they know "what should..." is unending.

Anyone who tells you that $60,000 (which is far more than I make per year) is too much to do this job... hasn't done this job.

 

First off, that's why what was said was "many" and "most" and not "all". And here's the thing - it's somewhat difficult to believe in creationism and NOT believe in God, too. Also, no one ever said you had to go to church to believe in the theory.

Responses to your two things: First, I also cannot change your mind, I can just tell you the flaws that I see running rampant all over this theory and hope that you will begin to see them too.

#2.... Why should I email Mr. Ham? I doubt he will be able to change my mind either, and I too have listened to people (not DVDs) from both sides of this argument, and it just makes sense for people to not be so trusting in the theory of Creationism (IMHO).

As it has been demonstrated several times, as well, there are still several people who believe fully in the Bible stories and do not wish to accept any other points of view. I do search things out for myself, which is why I know enough to be able to debate about it in forums or amongst others such as I am doing now.

~AJ

 

As I heard someone say....One day you will see that I'm right

Well...if you know everything this subject has to offer then maybe he can't change your mind....but I don't think that is the case...there is always something we can learn!
Why shouldn't you email....if you are sure that he can't then anything he says won't matter....unless you just don't want to hear the same thing many people have said....but if you read it with an open mind maybe it will.....
If you don't want to email just do something eles for me....is there one thing that you base all of your learning on....do you think that because of "This" that Creationism is wrong....or maybe because you heard "that"....what every it is just search on AIG site for it.....maybe there will be an article about it---and you can read it...

That my friend is nuts...for a person to only beleive part of the Bible...if they take the Bible and say....well only part of it is right but the writers decided to make a funny start....well if you read the back it goes right along with the part in the front...so if they say the back part of the Bible is real then I must also take the front....they are running away from something they know is right but can't say how it happened just down to the dot so they say they are right and the Bible is wrong....

You have read a bill of goods....you have taken what some people say have been proven....many things (and AIG have pointed this out on DVD's, or their site, and in books) that evolutionary theory have said proved their point....was found out later that the dating was either wrong or something messed up...but nobody talks about that---

Nobody and this is Me and You AJ....know enough about anything to be able to debate it....I'm not debating this subject....I'm trying to help others find the error in their way....if they don't listen....sorry but I tried....

Speedy

 

Let me ask you this. Churches have been the place to learn about religion ever since this country was founded. Have they been doing such a bad job that we now need to teach religion in public schools? And whose version of religion should we teach Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants, Evangelicals, and Baptists? Can we also start teaching evolutionary science in churches? I think that there is a real void the regular church-going community when it comes to the finer points of evolutionary theory.

When I was growing up, I learned about God at church and I learned about science in school. If churches these days are failing to get "the word of God" out to the flock, maybe they should re-evaluate themselves and stay out of an area that they clearly don't belong and were never intended be a part of in the first place.

 

The theory of evolution is constantly being tested and revised. That is what science is. Scrutiny. Skepticism. Creation science is constantly being tested and rejected because its tenets do not support the overwhelming evidence.

 

This doesn't have much relevance, but I went to a catholic school (Although I'm not catholic), and they taught evolution. Seems to me that the catholics are a little more willing to bend than most protestant groups (I am a confirmed protestant).

What I don't understand is why people believe in creationism, because of the bible, yet don't follow the laws in leviticus. It seems to me that some of these were created at the time for safety purposes, rather than religious ones.

For example, leviticus states that you cannot eat shellfish. However, these can often have vibrio parahaemolyticus, or vibrio cholera. Also, pigs, another forbidden animal, can cause trichinosis through consumption.

I'm not discretiting creationism, and there is no proof of how we came about.

 

Watch it Moen, with statements like this, you could be seen as coming over to "my" side of the aisle. Probably not, but at least you agree with me on this point!

 

I've heard you say that before and still don't know why you think it's true. Humans have lived everywhere from mountains, to secluded valleys, to dessert caves for as long as there have been humans. Where did you get this silly idea anyway? What about the Anasazi of the southwest US, the Australian Bushman, the Himalayan and Tibetan cultures, the Peruvian Indians. Early on, before they build any cities they certainly live in those environments. How can you honestly sit there and say that there is no fossil record. Been to a museum lately?

It is not being "preached" as anything but science. Of course it needs to be revised and updated as more information is uncovered, that's science.

Leftist Fundamentalism - now there is an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. You might not like the message because it threatens your personal belief system but the more we know, the less we need superstition and folklore to explain the things we don't understand. Creationists are fond of saying that, “I didn’t come from a monkey”, intentionally or perhaps really, misunderstanding that we branched off from anything resembling modern simians eons ago and only share about 98% of our DNA with them at this point in time. The frightening thing about evolution is, that if true, the Garden of Eden story is just that, a story that is no more fact than Dick and Jane. Enlightenment has always threatened the church and it’s teachings. They are not going to give in without a fight. I, for one, chose not to be frightened by their eternal damnation and wrathful God stories. If God exists, God would be a benevolent caretaker of his flock and I’m sure he would be pretty cheesed off at those misrepresenting is name.

 

I'll risk it.