The Russians were sizing BO up from Day One!!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by David, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    So your cliche justifies undermining this country, our president, and our standing in the eyes of the world and divides this country at time when we should be speaking with one voice to condemn Putin's actions? I see.

    By your logic, we have to bully everyone else in the world or we are being weak instead of fomenting hatred of our foreign policy globally and cultivating enemies. Just....WOW! Could the Right-wing be more naive? Hard to imagine. :eek:
     
    2 people like this.
  2. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Really? Who was he waiting for?
     
    2 people like this.
  3. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Obama!
     
  4. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Glad you answer for lil davy. He needs the help. I'll ask you the question I was saving for him.

    Who was Putin waiting for when he invaded Georgia? :eek:
     
  5. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    How about the Democrats to control Congress.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Thanks for the good laugh. :D
     
  7. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    The South Kuril Islands in Northern Japan...
    [​IMG]
    ...have been in dispute for longer than most of us have been alive, but I'll hazard the guess that republicans say it's Obama's fault that the Russians still "own" them. :rolleyes:
     
    2 people like this.
  8. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Stop with your logic and truth and stuff! Just stop! Just leave them al-o-o-o-ne!

     
    2 people like this.
  9. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Got it! Lose the discussion and you change the topic.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. JoeNation
    Angelic

    JoeNation FOX Lies, GOP buys!

    Believe me, you don't "got it". :confused:
     
  11. freshmeat

    freshmeat Active Member

    Mitty would have stuck him in one of those binders with all those women and kept him otherwise preoccupied. Or sent the Dynasty bros over there in the camo undies to do some duck call suckin'.
     
  12. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member

    So all we have to do is announce that we're going to build Keystone and Putin will figuratively go scampering back to Moscow with his troops right behind him? I have to say I'm dubious. But I'd like to be educated here. So let's say we're actually moving forward with the Keystone thing. It's gong to be a reality. I have a few questions since you appear to be kind of an oil guy.

    How much new oil do you figure would have to hit the market in order to bring the price of crude down sufficiently to cause Russia to back off on something they view as a major security priority? Or to put it more simply, how large of a world-wide price drop would you anticipate once Keystone is fully functional?

    Will more crude automatically translate into lower prices? Doesn't it have to be released to the market before that happens? What role does speculation and futures trading have on prices? Would there be some sort of guarantee that the output from Keystone would be allowed to have the desired effect?

    Could not lower prices spark an increase in consumption, thereby driving prices back up again? How would you expect oil producers other than Russia to react to falling prices? They wouldn't be any happier about it than Moscow would.

    What role would China and its massive need for oil play in this? Does it not have the capacity and the money to suck up a huge amount of cheap excess should it hit the market? I don't know how much Keystone will produce, but I would guess that China could swallow it all without a burp. But I could be wrong.

    Since you're the one who is asserting that Keystone is our magic weapon I'm sure that you've researched things like this and have some figures that will lend some plausibility to this scenario of yours. Show us how you think it will work.
     
  13. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Interesting how you pick a single point out of my comments and try to make it the sole driver. What happened to ANWR? And I can assure you that Romney would not be asking Brazil to drill in the Caribbean - we would be. Federal permits would not have been cut, but increased. The point was if we open our oil production, the price of oil would drop. The exact amount depends on the rest of the world's politic. Maybe just having a leader would settle the politic and the price of oil would drop just because of that also.

    Now, you can nit pick that all you want, but the one thing you cannot change is that Russia invaded Ukraine under the Obama administration and not under a Republican administration. Have I given the perfect answer? Absolutely not, but it can be no worse than what Obama has done.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. IQless1
    Blah

    IQless1 trump supporters are scum

    lol

    ...It's nice to see you again, but really...why put yourself through this chit?

    IMO, it's just not necessary, given that the Keystone Pipeline is just one of many that are already being used, and the Oglala Aquifer...
    [​IMG]
    ...has already been @#%&ed with for some time...so relax and let nature...I mean "big-oil interests".... take it's course, environment (and people, btw) be damned.

    Then again, @#$%ing with their infantile assertions that the pipeline is a "magic weapon" against Putin is somewhat of an amusement for us. So, if that's what thrills ya, please, carry on.
     
    2 people like this.
  15. Takiji

    Takiji Well-Known Member


    It's interesting that you consider it nitpicking when someone asks you questions about your unsupported assertions.

    So far you appear to be totally unable to back your claim that in order to bring about a significant (and long term?)lowering of world crude prices it would take not even a functioning Canadian Sludge Line but simply the announcement that we were going to build the Canadian Sludge Line.

    And we can touch on ANWR. Ten to twelve years from exploration to on line. So even if Obama had waived his magic wand and given it his blessing on the first day of his administration we'd be where at this point? At best about 4 years away from go? Yeah, that would be scaring 'ol Vlad.

    And the same questions I have about the Canadian Sludge Line I have about ANWR. You say that together they'd shut Putin down because they would lower world oil prices. And not just lower them but would cause a price decline which in its magnitude and duration would force Russia to rethink securing its vital (as it sees them) military interests in Crimea. But you are not willing to provide a shred of documentation for how you see all this playing out under real-world conditions. No data, no projections.

    Just empty partisan vaporings basically. But this is Partisan Lines, isn't it.

    We can talk about the missile shield next if you like.
     
  16. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Forget 10 Years--Drilling ANWR Would Pay Off Right Away

    By Doc Hastings November 3, 2011 SHARE
    258
    270
    The fragile economy, high unemployment, and national debt are major concerns for many Americans across the country. While President Obama is campaigning on another so-called stimulus plan that will raise taxes on American families and job creators, he's ignoring one of the best solutions to these problems—increased American energy production through drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The United States has vast energy resources that are not currently being harnessed. One particular area with the greatest potential for new American energy development is ANWR in Alaska.
    For decades, both sides have argued over the costs and benefits of drilling in ANWR. However, given the advancements in technology and our current economic struggles, it's clearly time to give ANWR energy production fresh consideration.
    The North Slope of ANWR, a tiny section of the 19 million-acre refuge, was specifically set aside by President Jimmy Carter and Congress for potential energy production. A plan developing less than 500,000 acres would provide access to the majority of ANWR's energy resources. We can harness the potential of ANWR by using less than 3 percent of its acreage.
    [Read about how competition impacts gas prices.]
    Advances in technology allow for energy production to be conducted safely and with minimal environmental impact. New extended-reach drilling allows for a single drilling platform to cover a 28,000-foot radius—larger than the size of Washington, D.C.
    Energy production in ANWR will result in considerable economic benefits. It will create tens of thousands of American jobs and, according to estimates, could generate approximately $150 billion to $296 billion in federal revenue over the life of production. This doesn't even include the cumulative economic impacts that will be felt at the local and state levels.
    ANWR contains an estimated 10.4 billion barrels of oil that could be used to help lower gasoline prices and strengthen our national security. At peak production, ANWR could produce up to 1.45 million barrels of oil per day—more than the United States currently imports daily from Saudi Arabia. Americans are tired of spending $1 million per minute importing foreign oil. Increased American oil production in places like ANWR strengthens America's energy security and takes money out of the pockets of unfriendly OPEC countries. According to the Energy Information Administration, for each barrel of oil produced in ANWR, U.S. imports will decline by one barrel—insulating ourselves from the unstable global market.
    [See a collection of political cartoons on gas prices.]
    Critics argue that we shouldn't drill in ANWR because it will take 10 years for the oil produced to become available. This fuzzy logic has been used for the last 20 years by those who simultaneously argue that renewable energies like wind and solar need decades to mature, along with billions in government subsidies. This inconsistent comparison is illogical and fails to provide equity in America's need for an all-of-the-above energy policy. While oil from ANWR might take a couple of years to get online, the job creation and effect on the economy would be almost instantaneous, as infrastructure and development activity could start immediately, sending billions to the federal government and employing thousands of people.
    America's struggling economy, dismal job growth, growing national debt, and increasing reliance on hostile countries for energy make this moment the ideal time to harness our abundant energy resources in ANWR.
    http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/i...years--drilling-anwr-would-pay-off-right-away
     
  17. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    …Those who tolerate everything, stand for nothing.
    Jun
    19
    Facts About ANWR
    Found this while digging around in my archive tapes for something else, dated 2001. Source at the moment is unknown. I only managed to get part if the file back off the tape.
    -0-
    Fact 1 -The Coastal Plain of ANWR is America’s best bet for the discovery of another giant “Prudhoe Bay-sized” oil and gas region in North America. Many economic benefits would result: – The Coastal Plain could produce up to 1.5 million barrels per day for at least 25 years – nearly 25% of current daily U.S. production. – The U.S. would save $14 billion per year in oil imports. Federal revenues would be enhanced by billions of dollars from bonus bids, lease rentals, royalties, and taxes. Estimates in 1995 on bonus bids alone were $2.6 billion.
    Fact 2 -EIA’s Annual Energy Outlook 2000 reference, the potential ANWR oil recovered would have a value between $125 and $350 billion.
    Fact 3 -The estimates for the entire 1002 area (Coastal Plain), within this area, USGS 1998 estimates that there are between 15.6 and 42.3 billion barrels of oil in place, with a mean of 27.8 billion barrels.
    Fact 4 -More than two out of three Alaskans (75%) report they support exploration on the Coastal Plain of ANWR. Annual polling conducted in by the Dittman Research Corporation demonstrated that a vast majority of Alaskans continue to support opening ANWR to oil and gas exploration.
    Fact 5 -The U.S. imports over 57% of the nation’s needed petroleum. These oil imports cost more than $100 billion a year. These figures are rising and could exceed 65% imports by the year 2005. ANWR production could replace imports of Saudi oil for over 30 years.
    Fact 6 -A 200 day supply is almost 4 billion barrels. The Coastal Plain probably contains much more oil, but it can be produced at a maximum rate of 2 million barrels per day (capacity of the trans-Alaska oil pipeline). Therefore, it could last for 25 years, and probably much longer.
    Fact 7 -ANWR. Doyon Ltd., a Native regional corporation with Gwich’in shareholders, supports ANWR development. Further, the Alaska Federation of Natives with a membership of 90,000 Alaska Natives is also in support of this issue.
    Fact 8 –There are no listed endangered species on the North Slope or in the coastal plain. Alaskans have always trod lightly on the land and have honored the animals as a source of sustenance.
    Fact 9 -A national survey conducted by the Christian Science Monitor in October showed that Americans support oil production in the ANWR, by a 54 to 36 percent margin.
    Fact 10 -City governments in Alaska support exploration and development on the Coastal Plain of ANWR. They understand the direct benefits to communities that nearly 30 years of oil and gas development on the North Slope has brought to them in the form of jobs, tax base, state funds for local roads, schools, public buildings and services. Many individuals from local governments have participated in education visits around the country.
    Fact 11 -The Alaska state Legislature has in the past passed a Resolution supporting ANWR development by 60 votes to zero.
    Fact 12 -The Inupiat Eskimos who live on Alaska’s North Slope and the residents of Kaktovik, who live on the coastal plain itself, all support careful development there, “in their back yard”, or “on their dining room table”.
    Fact 13 -All the major union groups such as the AFL-CIO, the Teamsters, the Maritime unions have been involved in oil development in Alaska. In recent years they have occupied at least 50% of the development jobs on the North Slope and have a good relationship with the major oil producers.
    Fact 14 -Economists at the Wharton School of Econometrics in Pennsylvania have calculated that full development of the estimated reserves of oil beneath the coastal plain would generate about 735,000 jobs nation-wide in every state in America. The Unions would like to take their fair share of those jobs which would often be long term and high paying.
    Fact 15 -In 1995 both the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate passed legislation to open the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to careful oil and gas leasing and development. The legislation never became law because President Clinton vetoed the Budget Bill.
    Fact 16 -In several public opinion polls made in 1995 Americans were almost entirely unaware of the issue surrounding oil development in ANWR. However, when they were told that development was opposed by environmentalists and the Secretary of the Interior, but supported by the government of Alaska and the vast majority of Alaskan natives, they responded 45% to 44% in favor of development. The margin of support increased to 56% in favor and 37% opposed when additional facts on the issue were provided to them. A very high majority, 74%, favored searching for domestic oil rather than importing foreign oil.
    Fact 17 -No oil from the North Slope has been exported. Exports can be stopped by a Presidential order. The U.S. exports advanced technologies, much more valuable and unique than oil. Few object to that.
    Fact 18 -The federal government won litigation in the Supreme Court of the United States, which allows congress to determine the share of revenues with the State of Alaska. Congress wants 50/50.
    Fact 19 -Studies from 1982 to 2000 by the state of Alaska’s Department of Fish and Game, and in 2000 by Yukon Territory’s Renewable Resources Department, show that over those 18 years only 43 percent of the Porcupine caribou herd used the “1002″ area. In 10 out of 19 years, less than 50 percent of the herd calved in the area; in four out of 19 years (1990, 1991, 1995 and 1998) a large portion of the Porcupine herd used the area for calving, but in five out of the 19 years (1982, 1986, 1987, 1988 and 2000) very few if any – calves were born in the 1002 area.
    Fact 20 -It would appear that caribou are not affected by oil development on the North Slope, based on scientists’ observations. The Central Arctic Herd, which uses the area around Prudhoe Bay, has increased five fold in population since oil development started in the early 1970s. There are four major caribou herds in northern Alaska. Besides the Porcupine and Central Arctic herds, there is the Western Arctic Herd, which is more than twice the size of the Porcupine Herd, and the smaller Teshekpuk Lake herd. Populations of these herds rise and fall by natural cycles. Three decades of oil and gas activity in the central North Slope has had no apparent impact.

    http://bitsblog.theconservativereader.com/2008/06/facts-about-anwr/
     
  18. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    Fact 21 -The coastal plain is host to a village of about 260 Inupiat natives on their 92,000 acres of land. The village of Kaktovik has housing, schools, stores, boats, an airstrip, power lines and a variety of other modern-day facilities, including an oil well. The U.S. military’s Barter Island Distant Early Warning System radar site is also on the plain’s shoreline. Most of the residents of Kaktovik favor drilling.
    Fact 22 -Out of Alaska’s 1,500 mile Arctic shore-line, only 14 percent is open to oil and gas exploration.
    Fact 23 -Refuge totals 19.6 million acres. 8 million acres designated Wilderness; Coastal Plain, 1.5 million acres, set aside by Congress for study of oil potential; Only a small percentage of Coastal Plain, about 2,000 acres, would be impacted by oil development; That is the equivalent of 1/100 of 1 percent.
    Fact 24 -The bulk of the refuge, 92 percent, remains protected with half of its 19.6 million already designated as wilderness, including a section of the refuge’s coastal plain that abuts Canada’s 3-mil-lion- acre Northern Yukon National Park.
    Fact 25 -Proposals have been made to declare the 1.5 million acre section of the Coastal Plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) as Wilderness. This area, 8 percent of the refuge, was set aside by Congress in 1980 for study of its oil and gas potential.
    Fact 26 -Alaska’s Wilderness lands were made into one state, they would become the 11th largest in the nation, or larger than the combined areas of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, Delaware and Maryland.
    Fact 27 -The Alaskan State House in the past passed Senate Joint Resolution 9 by a vote of 33 to 1 urging the United States Congress to pass legislation that will open the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska, (ANWR) to oil and gas exploration, development and production.
    Fact 28 -Ex. Vice President Gore has enthusiastically pressured American oil companies active involvement in oil exploration in eastern Siberia. The geography and physical conditions of that region are identical to arctic Alaska. The only difference is the regulatory protection of the environment, which, compared to Alaska, is minimal. So much for protecting Planet Earth!
    Fact 29 -The Government of Canada has been equally hypocritical about oil development in the range of the Porcupine Caribou Herd. In the 1960′s and 70′s the Canadians leased all their land in the area to oil companies who drilled over 90 wells, some in the herd’s calving area. The government also built the Dempster Highway which runs directly through the calving and migratory area. The Canadian Gwich’in have never protested any of these actions. When the drilling found no economic hydrocarbons the Government designated the area adjacent to ANWR a National Park and declared its opposition to any development on the ANWR coastal plain. At the same time Canada continues to explore offshore in the Beaufort Sea and periodically requests from Alaska information on tanker routes from the Mackenzie Delta across northern Alaska and into the Pacific! So much for responsible concern for the arctic environment.
    Fact 30 -All the familiar players such as the Sierra Club, Audubon Society, National Wildlife Federation, Friends of the Earth, etc., are passionately opposed to producing oil from the coastal plain. They all raise millions of dollars with emotional appeals to save the arctic caribou, and describe the area as “the Serengeti of the North”, or “the Crown Jewels of the Arctic”, or “America’s Last Wilderness”, or “the last complete untouched arctic ecosystem”. These rhetorical statements are devoid of reality and are used shamelessly to raise funds from people who usually have never been to Alaska and know little about it.
    Fact 31 -The environmentalists refer to caribou as “endangered”, when they know perfectly well that there are more caribou in Alaska than there are Alaskan people. Furthermore, the caribou are thriving, even those that live in the oil fields.
    Fact 32 -The Gwich’in of Arctic Village are the most vocal opponents against ANWR development. They call themselves “the caribou people” and subsist off of caribou from the Porcupine Caribou Herd which migrates through ANWR and neighboring parts of Canada. About 140 Gwich’in live in Arctic Village which is 125 miles south of the coastal plain and separated from it by the Brooks Range. The Gwich’in have organized themselves into a Gwich’in Steering Committee which is a white dominated organization based in Anchorage. It represents about 15 Athabaskan Villages in Alaska and Canada. The Group is funded by environmental foundations and the Environmental Organizations.
    Fact 33 -The Gwich’in of Arctic Village harvest about 350 caribou a year and the total annual native subsistence take is approximately 3000 animals. Most of those are killed in Canada and they represent a small proportion of the 160,000 Porcupine Caribou Herd.
    Fact 34 -Kaktovik Inupiats who also harvest caribou and observe them on the coastal plain and believe they will not be harmed.
    Fact 35 -The Gwich’in claim that drilling on the coastal plain will destroy the caribou herd because it often uses part of the coastal plain as its main birthing ground. The Gwich’in ignore the opinion of the Fact 15 – In the 1970′s the Alaskan Gwich’in were fully supportive of oil exploration on their own lands through which the herd migrates. They offered leases to the oil industry covering their entire reserve area. In the early 70′s Exxon carried out seismic work in the area before giving it up. In 1977 village leaders went to BP Alaska Exploration to execute an agreement for exploration and several surveys were carried out. In 1980 the Rougeot Corporation of Tulsa Oklahoma leased 1.5 million acres and paid several million dollars in lease fees. The lease agreement contained no provisions to protect the Porcupine Caribou Herd. All these ventures came to naught, but the Gwich’in were still preparing new lease maps in 1984. They argue now that exploration activity would not affect the herd, albeit they hoped for eventual production, not exploration. This position is very different from their beliefs today.
    Fact 36 -There are several other reasons the coastal plain is distinct from the rest of the ANWR. It is not part of the hills and mountains of the Brooks Range, where the environmentalists take their beautiful photos of the ANWR. It is a flat, treeless, almost featureless plain in northeastern Alaska that extends from the Brooks Range northward to the Beaufort Sea. There are times on the coastal plain when exposing human flesh to the elements would ensure death. The temperature can drop to -40 degrees Fahrenheit in January. Few animals can thrive in those temperatures. Only five species of birds, some polar bears (who den on the Beaufort Sea pack ice) and lemmings (who burrow beneath the snow-pack) remain during the winter months. There are 56 days of total darkness during the year, and almost nine months of harsh winter. The caribou travel to the coastal plain from Canada, passing near 89 dry wells drilled by the Canadian government and crossing Canada’s Dempster Highway–all of which seems to be development that does not hinder their migration or survival.


    http://bitsblog.theconservativereader.com/2008/06/facts-about-anwr/
     
  19. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
    Fact 37 -Our only experiment with oil fields and caribou has taken place nearby on Alaska’s North Slope in Prudhoe Bay. The Central Arctic caribou herd that inhabits part of Prudhoe Bay has grown from 6,000 in 1978 to 19,700 today, according to the most recent estimates by state and federal wildlife agencies.
    Fact 38 -There is some evidence that the caribou use un-vegetated and elevated sites such as river bars, mud flats, dunes, gravel pads and roads in the existing oil fields as relief habitat from mosquitoes and from oestrid flies that attack their nostrils.
    Fact 39 -Environmentalists also worry about the polar bear, though most biologists will tell you that the bears rarely den on land in this region, preferring the arctic ice. Alaska’s polar bear population is healthy and unthreatened. The Marine Mammals Protection Act takes care of the polar bear in the existing oil fields–and would do the same on the coastal plain.
    Fact 40 –The protections and how they relate to oil workers…They are not allowed to harm a polar bear. There are steel cages around many of the doors of the facilities in Prudhoe. That way, workers can look off into the distance for bears before they venture out. No polar bear has been injured or killed as a result of extracting oil in Prudhoe Bay.
    Fact 41 -Exploration and development is done in the harsh winter months, which allows the use of ice airstrips, ice roads and ice platforms. It is done when no caribou are present.
    Fact 42 -The North Slope’s petroleum industry is the cleanest, most technologically advanced and most heavily regulated in the world. Facilities are designed for minimal environmental impact.
    Fact 43 -The North Slope oil fields currently provide the U.S. with nearly 25% of it’s domestic production and since 1988 this production has been on the decline. Peak production was reached in 1980 of two million barrels a day, but has been declining to a current level of 1.4 million barrels a day.
    Fact 44 -The presently producing oil fields at Prudhoe Bay on Alaska’s North Slope have cost in excess of $50 billion to build and maintain. Of that considerable sum of money fully 85% was spent outside of Alaska for goods and services from companies all across the nation. Those expenditures have created American jobs and benefited America’s economy.
    Fact 45 – When Prudhoe Bay was developed in the 1970′s, about 2 % of the surface area over the field, or 5,000 acres, was covered by gravel for roads and drilling and production facility sites. If Prudhoe Bay were developed today, using lessons learned since the 1960′s, gravel would cover less than 2,000 acres, a 60 % reduction.
    Fact 46 -Instead of building a gravel pad for exploration drilling, companies are now building temporary pads of ice, which disappear after the exploration well has been drilled. Temporary ice roads have long been used to support winter exploration drilling on the North Slope.
    Tags: alaska federation of natives, alaska oil pipeline, Anchorage, annual energy, anwr oil, archive tapes, Arctic, Arctic Village, Barter Island, Beaufort Sea, best bet, Central Arctic, central North, coastal plain, Connecticut, Delaware, dittman research corporation, doyon ltd, eastern Siberia, economic benefits, eia, energy outlook, federal revenues, Kaktovik, Mackenzie Delta, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, maximum rate, National Park, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Slope, northern Alaska, oil and gas exploration, oil imports, outlook 2000, Pacific, Porcupine, prudhoe bay, regional corporation, Rhode Island, saudi oil, Vice President Gore, Western Arctic
    http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/i...years--drilling-anwr-would-pay-off-right-away
     
  20. rlm's cents
    Hot

    rlm's cents Well-Known Member

    BTW, it was 12 years ago that the Democrats blocked drilling in ANWR. Now I cannot tell you exactly what the price of oil would be now if they had drilled nor can I tell you Putin would be broke, but it sure stands a better chance than the alternative has brought us.
     

Share This Page