What may be the problem...modern education

I can tell you from personal experience that it happens almost every year, some years more than others. I worked as a resource advisor while I was on active duty (just retired this month). This past year, there wasn't much, but in previous years, it was considerable. It could be anywhere from a couple thousand to a couple million and you have 20 minutes to spend it (not always that drastic, but you get the idea). We'd always have things that we were unable to purchase and would go unfunded; these were the items that we concentrated on. Nothing as sexy as a new aircraft, usually servers and other IT upgrades.

That does sound like an interesting course of action. They would be using and improving skills they had acquired in the previous grades, and putting them to use in a way that was meaningful to them. Wish you the best of luck and nothing but success with this plan.

 

Greetings there samjimmy, you are about to discover that I have taken some of your posts and grouped them for convenience and clarity of discussion. So let’s start with the first of the issues:

Evidently you are a poor reader, as I don’t believe you can find anyplace where I said I was in favor of any particular type of school. Nor have I said I would recommend any type other than the normal public school system we need to fix by possibly using some of the free lesson plans provided over the internet, that you mentioned.
Was there ever a question that I wouldn’t be able to do the math? Maybe you should take back the dunce cap and go sit in the corner!

You of all people should know they are challenged, and NOT handicapped. No wonder you are having problems with them in your class room. Are you admitting that you are not competent enough to do the job you are being paid to perform? Yes, I can only imaging that it is extremely hard to sleep when the kids are making all that noise.

I read this and researched the California state web site, along with the NEA site, and this is the data they are posting: A teacher in the LAUSD with a Masters degree and 7 years of experience teaching will be in the neighborhood of $74,414 base pay. Now with the customary fringe benefits it will add an additional $22,700 for a total of $97,114 to have you work for the district for nine (9) months. That isn’t all that shabby, now is it? Yes, yes I know, all those work shops they insist that you attend. Most districts not only pay you to go, but also arrange for credit hours toward higher degrees and/ or recertification. All at no expense to you.

Let me understand this quote, “never been trained to put it all together”. What kind of teacher preparation did you receive and what school is turning out teachers this way? I would like to look into this matter a little deeper if you don’t mind. You described you day, so I would guess you have a five period schedule, with one period reserved for class prep. You remember what that is don’t you? It’s when you sit around the teacher’s lounge coffee table and tell jokes and try and find ways out of doing any more than absolutely necessary.

You said it yourself, they work and all it takes is a little work on the part of the teacher to prepare. Your being paid to do this aren’t you? So what is the problem?

Lord help us! I can’t believe you actually said this even if you were kidding, as it isn’t a bit funny. You had better stay right there in California , because someone would shoot you if you went any where else and tried passing your self off as a teacher.

You pompous ass, I will match you degree for degree and then add the Phd from Columbia to match any thing you have. Experience, well how does 41 years on the local school board sound to you? President of the State board of Education for two terms and believe me we have the people who know how to do their jobs, or they don’t last very long. As example will be coming up shortly.

You say you are only to “shoot” for the standards. That indicates to me that you haven’t got there yet, and may not make the grade if given all the time in the world. We had a Superintendent who thought and spoke this way. We sent him packing down the road, kicking rocks and talking to himself. We hired his replacement who speaks of standards as something to “surpass” and be better than. He has proven his point and produced top rate students who can go out into the world and make themselves into any thing they want to be.

Believe it or not, this is where you come in, and should know without asking these questions. It’s why they are paying you those big bucks for being so smart and having a MA in Education. Either fish or cut bait, as the old saying goes. Which reminds me, have you ever thought of a different occupation? Food for thought!

 

Money going to Charter Schools bad.
Money going to teacher pay raises good.
Money going to wasteful programs/corruption bad.
Money going to hire more teachers good.

Two parent working households bad for kids.
Single parent households bad for kids.
TV.Video Games bad for kids.

watering down of programs bad for kids.

School in bad shape. Fix bad with good.

 

Schwarzenegger Drops Bomb on California Teacher Unions

Written By: Lance T. Izumi
Published In: School Reform News
Publication Date: March 1, 2005

In his January 10, 2005 State of the State address, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) proposed to overturn teacher tenure and to link teacher pay to merit and performance.

California teachers currently receive "permanent status," or tenure, after completing a two-year probationary period. Once tenured, it is virtually impossible to fire a teacher.

Repeatedly calling the current system "an educational disaster," Schwarzenegger said, "I propose that teacher pay be tied to merit, not tenure. And I propose that teacher employment be tied to performance, not to just showing up."

The governor also said he will "introduce measures to further charter schools, vocational education, and fiscal transparency so people know how every educational dollar is spent at their local schools."

Schwarzenegger acknowledged a battle looms. Addressing legislators directly, he said, "This is a battle of the special interests versus the children's interests. Which will you choose?"

Why not come right out and say, " The NEA vs. Students"

 

I am a centrist. Lefties think I am a Nazi. Bible thumping conservatives think I am a communist. That said, if I were King I would do the following.

I would run public schools like a benign juvenile prison:

#1 - There would be a dress code with very little personal discretion. Girls would not be allowed to come to school dressed as young prostitutes. Boys would not be allowed to dress like street thugs.

#There would be a zero-tollerance policy for violence and threats of violence.

#Chronic class clowns and those who threaten or mock teachers would be placed in police-supervised isolation for measured periods of time.

#School attendance would be mandatory, and truancy laws would be inforced.

#The campus would be closed and gated during school hours. No students would be allowed to leave or enter during school hours without a signed note from a parent, guardian, or treacher. No off-campus lunch trips.

#All students, rich, poor, or in between, would eat in the same cafeterias at the same time. No outside food would be allowed, except for documented food allergies. The food would be heathful and tasty. No Coke machines or junk food dispensors. No candy machines. Bootleg junk food would be confiscated and destroyed.

#All students, and their parents, would have to sign a written contract, agreeing with school policies and prescribed discipline measures.

#All students would be required to do at least a half-hour of physical exercise every day. Homework on down-time

If this were to happen, I would be willing to bet all the wine in my cellar that grades and student behavior would improve drastically within 90 days. Of course this will never happen. The ACLU would sue the school into financial oblivion for abusing the little darlings. Coca Cola and other corporate providers of processed sugar, caffeine, and yellow grease products would derail the educational reformation. I shall take two aspirins and go to bed.

 

Quick dog I don't think the ACLU would balk at that. Most of those ideas are common sense (unfortunately common sense is not to common).

 

If it turned out that quick dog's suggestions were common sense, thsn it would be the NEA that you would be fighting to get them implemented into the school system.

 

I'm not a leftie, and therefore don't think you're a Nazi. I am also not a "Bible-thumping conservative" and therefore, I don't think you're a communist. I am a classic liberal conservative, and I think you're a fascist.

#1 There is such a thing as "freedom of speech" in this country, and I would doubt very much if your school wasn't sued and bankrupted from the number of lovely lawsuits to that nature you would get.

#2 Can't argue with that one. Threats are bad in any sense of the word.

#3 "Class clowns" are now going to be supervised by the police in isolation, huh? I wonder how long that one will last before somebody sues you again for this dumb policy. You can't detain a student without his parents being present or giving their consent (please see #7).

#4 Mandatory, huh? Sounds like it is now at schools. Besides, you can't make kids go to school if they are so compelled to ditch it. Truency laws aren't going to deter squat.

#5 I don't see how open campuses are all that bad in some cases. My old campus was open, and we never had a problem with it. I understand, though that this is a choice for that school board to make based on the area the school is in, nearby amenities, and general consent of the parents whose children attend the school.

#6 Yeah... that's just dumb. You're telling me a kid can't bring a packed lunch to school anymore, huh? I wonder how long THAT policy will last.... I don't give it a month.

#7 I doubt more than 10% of parents would agree to comply with these policies that you've outlined. I know I wouldn't. And then, if the parents don't wish to comply, and decline to send their students to school, you'd probably try to bust the parents for making their children be truant. Again with the lawsuits and bad press in general.

#8 Phys. Ed. every day for a half hour? Your kids are gonna revolt. Besides, thats what recess is for in elementary school. There's your exercise. In junior high and high schools (post-elementary education, for those of you with different names for that system), children are supposed to be focusing on their studies, not how much running they get in a day. If kids want to exercise and play, they will, and if not, then they won't. I know when I had phys. ed. (every day for four semesters, mind you), we normally ran the mile on M/W/F. I can tell you that there was a good group of us (about 10) that WALKED the mile. Nobody was gonna be able to make us run it or exercise more than we wanted to.

I disagree that your school's grades and behavior would improve dramatically. It might start out working, but I would foresee it declining rapidly, as everybody there just got sick of your policies and practices.

Anyway, just my take on it, as a kid who was in the system only a year ago.

~AJ

 

If you were in high school within the past year or so, then you really have almost no frame of reference to base your opinions upon. You are the product of a flawed system. Middle schools and high schools were not always as you have experienced them.

It is obvious to anyone that my theoretical program was largely tongue-in-cheek, and that such actions in a public school would face a blizzard of nuisance lawsuits because that is the current status quo. Public schools were not always as they are today. Another thing for your consideration is that many of my hypothetical rules are already used in many Christian and secular private schools in the United States.

My daughter went to a Catholic high school where 90 percent of the graduates go on to universities. She never missed a day of school and got a full-ride to Cornell. My son elected to go to public school. He was kicked out of two high schools for misbehavior. He was a very popular wiseguy. He also cut 100 days of his senior year without a word from the school to me about it. A boy was shot to death in the hallway at my son's third public high school, as he watched. He drove home.

My impression, after observing my kids, and even substitute-teaching high school for a while, public schools in many areas of the country are a hopeless mess. I think my educational "wish rules" would solve many of the problems. By the way, the last person I would consult on my educational thesis would be a high school pupil.

Oh yeah, thanks for showing me how to spell "fascist". You will have to excuse me. I went to public schools.

 

I wasn't doing anything except expressing my views. It seems like you wish to put everything else down, so why not the first amendment, too, huh? I don't give a damn what your son or daughter did or do in their schools. They're not attending the school I came from, which was my base of reference for my entire view. That's why I can say what I do without giving a care in the world for whatever things in your area are going on. Furthermore, what happens in Christian or secular schools that are private does not concern me. What does is the imposition of your little parade of "wish rules" in public schools. Private schools are just that - private. Parents who do fit into my hypothesized 10% are more than welcome to turn their children into little robots via such strictness. And even further, I wasn't giving you any type of consultation. I was expressing MY view, which happens to disagree wildly with yours. So I ask you, be respectful of that fact, and don't sit there and put me down for expressing my views.

I wasn't showing you how to spell anything. If you didn't know how to spell it, then all I can say is that you should get yourself a good dictionary.

Regards,
AJ

 

Ok. I will get more serious with my responses.

1.We should have right to work states in every state and not give unions a monopoly of control over the teachers pay with forced union dues and PAC money deductions, its done legally and illegally in many ways.

2. Teachers should be hired and retained based upon qualifications and merit.
However, there should be no merit pay for good schools function as a team.

3. Teachers should be paid enough to live a middle class life style and have free
medical. We do want teachers to have kids and we do want the best teachers to
stay in teaching.

4. Alot of what Quickdog did state tongue in cheek had alot of truth to it and
would make a good blue print to follow.

 

Troll your boat elsewhere matey.

Unless you and Danr are the same person, don't believe the free internet lessons were directed at you.

Troll your boat elsewhere matey. Do they ban trolls here too?

Actually they are "special needs" but you probably knew that. And no, I have not been trained (nor has any regular classroom teacher) to teach a classroom of children at grade level, plus a child with special needs. They could give me a whole class of special needs children, and (due to the training I have had), I would not be "competent enough to do the job you are being paid to perform."

I don't work for LAUSD. My base salary will be ~$56K, I don't know where you got the $74K figure from but it is inaccurate.

Troll your boat elsewhere matey. Why don't you sign up to become a teacher and then you'll find out what I mean. I've already posted it. (Comprehension tip: If you don't understand something, read the material again).

Gee, it's like you are there in the lounge! How did you know?!

No "five period shedule" ... no "one period reserved for class prep" -but I wish! You seem to have (yet again) no understanding. Good guesses, no actual understanding. We do not have periods, we do not have any prep time.

I said they (IEPs) work? Really? I said that? (See comprehension tip above).

My you are a troll. Yes, I said it. Do you know how much infomation a child (generalized on purpose) is capable of learning? Do tell. Maybe you saw the typos and thought you'd ignore the point and concentrate on that, as discussing the topic was too much?

Goes to show you how a Phd from Columbia, 41 years on the local school board and President of the State board of Education for two terms doesn't make one any more knowledgeable about much of anything. Teach for a year then come back and talk to me. Anyone can drive the car from the back seat.

No, we have not gotten there yet, and it's all my fault. It is because of me, and me alone, that my students have not mastered every standard on that web site.

Yeah, I've thought about running for the school board.

 

Let me guess, you support this?

Once tenured, it is virtually impossible to fire a teacher.
False and five years doesn't address, nor fix any problems with the system.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) proposed to overturn teacher tenure and to link teacher pay to merit and performance.
I've got an idea! Let's link the parent's pay to their child's performance! How would you like to be paid based on how well your child does on the big, already too much emphasis placed upon, state test? If you're willing, I'm willing.

The fact that already way too much is linked to this one test is ridiculous. If teacher pay is linked to it, exactly what do you think is going to happen? What type of instruction? Will teachers be able to use the curriculum they choose, or will we still be forced to teach what districts mandate (even though we and they know it's not adequate), and will we still be told when to teach it (pacing, pacing, pacing)?

My, this does sound like a good idea! Base teacher pay on how well 8 year olds do on a one and a half week state standardized test given in April. Brilliant!

This is a battle of the special interests versus the children's interests. Which will you choose?
Yep, that's teachers for you. Always looking out for themselves. If you want to make lots of money the easy way, become a teacher.

Now, isn't it about time you got off the internet and gave that kid of yours some test prep questions? Remember, if he scores lower this year, you just earned yourself a pay cut!

 

Merit pay is a horrible idea.

1. It will create more out of classroom positions and a waste of money for people to
man the department/division that will oversee it.

2. Good schools are based upon the team approach with teachers helping each other.
Merit pay would discourage this.

3. No one would want to work with the kids that need the work the most for their gains would not be as high as the average, above average kids.

4. If a teacher can not teach, just fire them. This would get rid of the bad teachers.

5. Pay all teachers a middle class living and have no teachers on tenure to insure that they stay fresh. However, they should have protection of job security as long as they are performing and they need not worry about any vendetta's, personal conflicts, or inappropriate parent charges as they do their jobs.

Note: As a nation we should consider our educational system as part of our defense budget for democracies can not survive without an educated mass that can make intelligent and informed decisions. Perhaps the Federal government should give a supplemental base pay scale for all teachers that is added to their district pay.

As for curriculum, lets go back to the basics of Math, Reading, Writing, Public Speaking, Science, Social Studies, Art, and Music with skill training in the trades being the electives and not alternative lifestlyes 101, etc..

 

Don't forget the mandatory physical exercise every day. They are too many fat little computer wimps out there. Oh yeah, every child should be expected to learn at least one foreign language. Two to graduate. Then, they would have to pick strawberries after school. Also, every child would have required "volunteer" public service in the local community. Conviction for graffiti with special circumstances would carry the death penalty.

 

In some cases I'm sure you are right, but with a good strong administration it can be made to work. It puts the responsibility where it belongs and makes for better students.

These differences would have to be allowed for and changed to fit the situation. It does work, and I have seen it done here in our schools.

Boy howdy, if this were only possible. The NEA and all the educators with masters degrees would really put up a fight to keep all the non-productive members as long as they are paying their union dues.

Their pay should be based on the job required and the ability to perforn the tasks assigned. They should have the same "rights" as everyone else, no exceptions.

Yes we need children who can make intelligent and informed decisions, and expecially as they grow up and get out on their own. But, my advice to the child graduating today is to take the schools and particular teachers who failed them to court. Nail them for everything they can get, and make the general public wake up and take notice.
I would also advise any district to keep the federal government out of the district as far as possible. That is part of the problem today. Too much government in our everyday lives.

I would back you 100% on this one. I also like quick dogs ideas, as they sure have merit.

 

I was a substitute math teacher in Southern California many years ago. I owned nothing but a pick-up truck at the time, was working two jobs, and living with my sister's family. I worked as a beer bartender in a pizza parlor during the nights and substituted math classes in highschool during the days. I owned nothing, so I was largely free to treat smart*** students as they should be treated. I was 25 at the time and had a seriously bad attitude.

I remember trying to get through a hermaphodite class in so called "Modern Math". There were a group of ****head teenage boys in the class that had customarily ran roughshod over their teachers. They apparently missed the recommended course on "Urban Survival 101". The first rule when attempting to hassle strangers is to never hassle someone who has nothing to lose. I was in a bad place in my life at that time.

This wise*** punk in the middle of the room, slouched back in his little chair, lit up a cigarette while his buddies around the room were giggling or blowing air through the hands that covered their mouths. The girls were pensive. The room went stone-cold silent. The test.

I saw the cigarette and smoke rings, set my book down, stepped around the podium, and walked slowly down the aisle between the chairs. There was palpable tension in the air. I got next to him, leaned over, cupped my hand over my mouth and whispered in his ear that if he didn't put out the cigarette immediately that I would make him eat it.

Everyone was pretty certain something had happened. He tossed the butt on the floor and squashed it. I walked back to the podium, then asked him to go to the principals office. It worked primarily because he was pretty sure that I meant it.

Teachers then, and even more so today, would never, ever, do anything like that. Jail time. Major lawsuits. Perfectly good teachers are held hostage in their own classrooms these days by little and large ****heads.

The answer to the school discipline problem you ask? Simple.

Never hire school teachers with anything to lose.

 

Maybe we should fix that "with a good strong administration" issue before merit pay should even be brought up, eh?

Solely on the shoulders of the teachers, as always.

I thought this sounded familiar...

Seems to contrast your anti-gimme, gimme, gimme posts, but what the heck, let's go with it. What great advice! Children shold sue the district and teacher for "not doing the job of educating" or "who failed them" in the same way they should take their parents to court for not "parenting."

Don't feel you've been edumacated? Sue your second grade teacher! It is their fault, not yours! Nail them for everything they've got! Take the endless piles of money that I roll around in once I get home!

:: rolls around in pile with evil laugh ::

It's as if there is an actual point (in your head) of what "educating" is, and if that line isn't crossed, you feel that "the child graduating today" has gounds to sue the district and the teacher for somehow not providing (what exactly again?) and (errrr... has to be something specific here).

In fact, let's just skip the middleman and just cut every 1st grader a check and let them opt out. Would you say a lifetime salary of a doctor (you pick which type) would be sufficient, or maybe they could have aspired to be something more than a doctor and that isn't enough? What exactly do we, I mean I personally (remember, sue the teacher!) owe them?

:: hands a blank check to every student ::

Personally I think the problem with education today is that we have people like this on the Board of Education for 41 years. Of course, they aren't responsible for any of this, they just set the policy and approve every single last item on the agenda concerning the district (don't sue them now).

:: rushes off to Columbia to get his PhD so he can give such brilliant advice ::

 

I agree, however if there's one thing that never seems to shink or go away, it's additional administrative positions at the district. What people get paid not to teach (department heads, coordinators, consultants,etc.) is a problem that is not and never will be addressed.

I don't know if merit pay would discourage this (one way or another), however I agree with the rest. I can tell you a bit about last year though. We watched videos about other schools and their collaboration methods. This went on for a few meetings. We then had meetings to discuss the videos. We never actually spent time on the point of the whole thing, which was... to collaborate.

You can already see it with student funding. Disctricts and schools get paid more if they can bring Basic (B) and Below Basic (BB) students to the Proficient (P) level. That means less emphasis is placed on Far Below Basic (FBB) students as they are not as likely to be brought up to the P level. Like wise for Early Advanced students. Do you think this sick *******ization of education was developed by teachers?

Of course you can adjust how many students are Proficient or not Proficient by raising or lowering the arbitrary levels. This would also be a handy way of lowering teacher salaries.

I know what you mean, but in most areas of employment, it's not that simple. First, if an employee is not performing to expectations (more on that later) there is generally a course of action taken (support, meetings with managers, etc.) and an effort to correct the shortcomings. This is true in many areas (other professions and jobs).

Second, "If a teacher can not teach" is pretty subjective. What exactly does that mean (exactly)? Already, but even more so in the future, that means that the teacher's students did not score well on... you guessed it... the state test. The teacher is one variable out of many variables which could have caused this, but the teacher is on the front line of why this happened, and will bear the burden. It's part of the job.

When the students do poorly on the test, it's the teacher's fault. When they do well, the superintendent, administrator, board, and anyone else is quick to boast about how it was their policies and programs that made the difference.

In some ways I agree, and in some ways I don't. We don't live in the 1950's and I'm not sure if 1950's-like education is the answer. The world is moving faster than that, and sticking with the basics isn't all that progressive.

I also question the notion that students have to learn many skills instead of mastering fewer core ones. I see no reason that second graders have to be tested on division with remainder, or 1 - 4/6 =? Knowing one's math facts is important, but with calculators on every cell phone, PDA, and computer, is is as important as it used to be?

This period will not be viewed as the golden age of education. It's not a great time to be a student, nor a teacher. I think education will get worse before it gets better, but then it really will get much better. It may not happen for 50 years or more, and I doubt I'll be alive to see it, but I'm optimistic.

 

It seems to me that everyone here feels that corrections need to be made.

With my posts however I forgot to mention the fact that our teachers must have one of the most difficult teaching jobs in the world. Just think about it. How many nations have to deal with teaching so many kids who come from other nations and nations that do not speak english at that.

Bottom line with me.
Teach objectively, dump revisionist/multi-cultural nonsense, (One people, one nation many backgrounds worked in the past), and teach what is needed. Then fire the bad and give the good "real money". For those good teachers, who I figure are the vast majority, deserve it.