Would someone tell me what the hell is wrong with the police in Arizona?

Hey I wasnt accusing you of being a criminal. I cant help if the cops shot you to death. I'm just not that fearful when someone knocks or rings my bell. His wife said they knocked. There's nothing else for her to add? No one said, ''Who is it?"? If you heard a knock on your door, would you grab an assault rifle? I wouldnt. Imagine the look on the Fedex guy's face seeing that pointing at him. I'm just saying why not ask who is there and then looking to see. I'm sure there are trigger happy cops out there. But try to understand they are briefed by a superior on whats to happen. They may hear things like ''desperate men'', ''drugged fueled'' ''lots of fire power''. Lower ranks arent in a postition to start second guessing commanders. So now they go into a house they suspect(because they were told by superiors)is a drug house with armed men in it, and see a guy with a rifle. Someone panics and the bullet shower starts. Why in the HECK did the guy grab a gun in the first place if he thought for a second it might be police? And if unsure, go look. I just wouldnt think a 9am knock on my door was a cop or robber. But maybe a mail man or delivery guy or a neighbor. And I dont get the ex marine slant either. Doesnt that make a difference? ''Was he a Vet?''. ''Nah.''. ''Oh, then he had it coming.'' Is that it?

 

Most cops I know are hardcore Reps. Thats America's hypocracy for ya. Cops hate defense lawyers too But as soon as they are accused of something, thats the 1st person they call.

 

Most of the cops I know will vote for the guy that protects the union. However, most voted Republican in the last presidential election. Can racism be considered a job hazard for inter city police officers?

 

I think its a deciding factor during the final interview in NYC

 

This is one of the best responses I've heard! Bravo, Craig!!

 

Really? Which part? The 'I wouldn't go the the door with an assault rifle'part? Doing so, to me is creepy. It's something David would do. Why are you taking this personally? How come the wife isnt telling her side? She must've heard something.

 

My best guess would be the "knock" was probably more of a pounding, followed immediately by "Sheriff's department!", and the breaking down of the door. That's usually the procedure, and all that is done in about 2 or 3 seconds. Not enough time for someone to verify exactly who is breaking down their door, and it happens so quick it's easy to freeze up for a few seconds and not immediately drop your weapon. Then, (the cops) seeing a weapon open fire. Now, if the guy was in a crouching position, and behind something, that would be even worse. The weapon can't be lowered fast enough and the cops WILL shoot first, and ask questions later. That's how I see it, but just a guess.

 

That's not what was reported. The story says they had a no break in warrant. But if you say so it must be true. 'Knock' 'Police' 'Break down'. In Three seconds. How long would it take you to hear the knock get out of bed grab a rifle and approach your front door? Now I don't know what home invaders do. You'll need to ask Peter. Do they pound on the door like cops do to see if someone is home? Or do they try to keep it on down low so as not to draw attention to the situation?

 

From the article:

"Vanessa Guerena says she heard noise outside their home about 9 a.m. Thursday and woke her husband who had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at the Asarco Mine, she said. There were no sirens or shouts of "police," she said.

Guerena told his wife and son to hide inside a closet and he grabbed the AR-15 rifle, his wife said.

The department says SWAT members were clear when identifying themselves while entering the home.

"Tucson is notorious for home invasions and we didn't want to look like that," said Lt. Michael O'Connor of the Pima County Sheriff's Department. "We went lights and sirens and we absolutely did not do a 'no-knock' warrant."

When five SWAT members broke through the front door Guerena was crouched down pointing the gun at them, said O'Connor.

"The suspect said, 'I've got something for you,' when he saw them," O'Connor said. Guerena's wife denied he said that.

Deputies began shooting."



So you've never seen a SWAT team in action? You think they come and politely knock on a suspected drug dealer's door (who is thought to have serious firepower with him) and wait for the guy to answer it? Are you daft? They BREAK IN as I said previously, and they do it FAST! Really... never seen them in action? Wow... you must have a life... (laughs)

 

Yes. I think they knock politely. I think they barely knock on the door. More like a child would knock on his parents bedroom door. Thats what I think, The cop said it wasnt a no knock warrant. I'm guessing just guessing now, that if it wasnt a no knock warrant, that indeed they did knock. Now why bother to knock if youre not going to wait for a reply anyway? Why have that kind of warrant if youre just going to break in? The cop said they did go with sirens wailing. Now thats easily verified through neighbors, ya think? And I'm unaware of the requirement to witness a swat team raid on a house. If its vital that one catches one if given the chance, I guess I'm not a very good American. Sounds like youve been on many. Please dont tell me you saw them on TV. I mean there is no way those could ever be set up to look more dramatic than they really are. I dont care much for ''reality'' TV. Or maybe these cops just wanted to kill a spic.

And youre saying that the dead guy was as fast as the swat team in getting to the door. Or looking at the door . Three seconds.

 

My mistake... thought you could listen to reason. No choice but to say you're being ignorant of the facts. It's not that you're not capable of reason, it's that you refuse to see reality.

 

So thats it? The reason thing? You said the swat team once at the door, broke in at shot the homeowner in three seconds. That is what you said. So if the homeowner was the there when the team busted in, it stands to reason he got to the same point in under three seconds. I dont think it can be done. Hear a knock or a noise or a chirp or whatever; get out of bed; grab an AR-15(from the dresser drawer I guess); and get in close proximity to the front door in time to see the police break it in. That is one quick bugger. So really; how many swat break ins have you been part of?

 

You're kinda twisting things, taking a single, simple fact and making it look like something else entirely, that makes it hard for me to explain my opinion to you. I never said the guy who was killed did everything in 3 seconds, I said the SWAT team typically pounds on the door, yells "Sheriff's department!" and busts down the door... in a few seconds. That's typical.

The guy himself obviously needed more time than what you are implying... his wife heard a noise, he got up, had them hide, grabbed his gun and positioned himself near the door... as a former soldier would do protecting his family. Meanwhile, the SWAT team had to jump out of their vehicle, clear an area to the door, and THEN take the few seconds it takes to pound on the door (yelling "Sheriff's department!", and bust it open.

Now, I know you said you've never seen them in action, and that you don't like reality TV, but I'm still surprised that you are not aware of how SWAT works, but you don't need to be on a SWAT team to know it. If you don't believe me fine, it's only my opinion, but at least try to research it a bit to see if I'm wrong or not before arguing with me over it.

 

Think this couldn't happen to you? How about a mayor?

The Raid on Mayor Cheye Calvo's Home | Make Maryland Great

The mayor later held a chat session on a Washington Post site:

Washington Post Magazine: Deadly Force - washingtonpost.com

 

I'm not implying anything. I'm just trying to understand your opinion. So now youre saying typically this and that. And since there seems to be a circumvention to a question; I'm guessing you have never been in a SWAT raid. But you have researched the procedures. Awesome. I was just going on what was reported. Clear an area to the door? Really? Is it typical that from the street to some one's front door, the walkway is strewn with obstacles and blockage? ''..as a former soldier would do protecting his family''. Really? I know quite a few vets, and that isnt something they would do. But then again I havent really researched any of them. I only know them. Typical psychos might do such a thing, but not typical people who have served in the military.

 

You take what is said and twist it so it fits into your own beliefs. I give you my opinion, you retort with disbelief and add scenarios and details in an attempt to discredit my opinion. You seem to want to argue over trivial details and take the discussion further away from the main point of the article. So I'll stop trying to explain things to you and hope you can find the information you're looking for somewhere else.

By the way, if there was a "no-knock" warrant... the SWAT team wouldn't have been required to go in with "all sirens blazing" or "knock" on the door. I'm surprised you didn't argue those points, they were the most obvious.

 

Actual I just repeated what the story stated. That the warrant was definitely not a no knock warrant. But since I'm accused of making things up It must not be what I read.

 

What in the heck am I making up? I wasn't the one that said the guy grabbed a rifle like any ''soldier protecting his family would''. That is pure fantasy. And I wasn't the one who said it. So what did I make up? I'm not a big fan of cops. But I have a problem with the lack of details against the swat team. And why did the dead guy feel he needed a gun to answer the door, when home invaders most likely wouldn't pound on a door thus prompting that kind of response.